Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Today was feeding day for my Nerodia clarkii compressicauda and so I gave them their usual appetizer of a scented rat pink. I followed that up by placing numerous comets in their water. My Mangroves' 30 gallon tank has a plexi-glass divider that seperates 1/3 of the tank's length and 1/3 of its height into a section that will hold water. Therefore I can look through the sides of the tank and see the snakes swimming beneath the water's surface. In response to the comets' movements, my dark phase female (pictured above) slowly sank to the bottom and rested her head flat on the gravel substrate. She then began to slowly extend and unfurl her tongue, much like one of those curled up party noise makers that you inflate with your breath. However, at the end of each cautious unfurling, she would wiggle it rapidly from side to side. The wormlike movement of her tongue quickly caught the attention of a nearby comet, who came over to investigate. You can imagine the result.

Lingual luring has been documented in this subspecies before and though I had seen pictures, I had not observed the behavior myself. Needless to say, it was incredibly fascinating. I'll try my hardest to capture it on camera next time and post it here for you to see.

-----
Pierson Hill

Herpetology and Herpetoculture

Now this is getting interesting ... did she repeat this with another comet, or where you too excited to offer another?
I've not heard of this in nerodia, tail luring with some vipers, yes, but ...
I love these snakes!

I was hoping she'd repeat it but after nabbing the first comet, she retreated from the water to eat the fish. I guess she was overly excited by that point because upon returning, she decided to use the "swim around in crazy circles with mouth open" technique. Amusing, yes but far more common.
-----
Pierson Hill

Herpetology and Herpetoculture

I have seen that before several times with florida water snakes, tentacle snakes, and elephant trunk snake where it seemed as if they use their tongue to lure fish and perhaps all water snake do that? Also, I wondered why my redtail green rat snake has that long and odd colored tongue and if you ever see one, it waves it about like a long worm and can keep it out longer than most other snakes. I wonder since they eat birds in the wild, if they use their tongue to attract a bird or lizard?

Dan

I haven't heard of lingual luring occurring in other species of Nerodia though I'm not surprised that Tentacled Snakes and File Snakes use it. If you could document it occurring in N. fasciata, that would be a natural history note worthy of publishing in the journal Herp Review.

As for Gonyosoma using lingual luring, I am somewhat doubtful as perform their bizarre tongue movements regularly and not in response to the presence of prey (at least from what I've seen). I've seen similar tongue action in some Crotalids. Maybe it's just a different style snakes use to sample airborn scent particles?
-----
Pierson Hill

Herpetology and Herpetoculture

I've been raising an Acrochordus javanicus for about a year and a half now. I've never seen it "lure", it usually swims around until it bumps into prey, then quickly constricts it, and swallows it in a big hurry. Constricting fish is a normal trait for this species and unusual for most "water" snakes, although grouping file snakes under that category is a bit broad IMO. I would like to hear from anyone else who has any experience with captive care of this species.
BTW I have only seen the "swim in circles..." mode with my nerodia c. as well but I use a very small water bowl for feeding, when they get bigger I'll have to setup them different - hope you can share some pics Pierson
-----
Paul Vetrone
North Georgia Herpetological Resources LLC
www.ngaherps.com

I'm curious about A. granulatus (see pic link below). I had a pair of this beautiful species many years ago and even though they had a great set up - brackish water, 55 gallon aquarium, lots of plants and cover, they rather quickly developed what appeared to be a fungus and died. After some research it turned out that (at least at that time) this species was considered basically impossible to keep in captivity. As I recall only 2 zoos at the time had managed to do so, one in Chicago and one in Australia. And in order to do so they had elaborate filtration systems in place.

They are fascinating snakes to observe in captivity. Has there been any advances in captive care of these guys? I still occasionally see them on price lists.

http://www.oct.zaq.ne.jp/creative/ensis/photo/a_granulatus.jpg

In case you missed it:

I'm not familiar with this species of snake (not raised them myself) but I knew a lady many, many years ago that did. Her's was kept in a simple, algae loaded, sand bottomed aquarium with a corner filter (the old style). I do not recall that the water was brackish but may be mistaken there. The snake appeared to be in perfect health for the six years that I saw it from time to time, at which point I moved away and have'nt seen it since.
Michael

Mine is the Javan File Snake - I've heard and read the stories about the fungus or white spots that seem to plague captive keepers. There was an excellent article in The Vivarium (V10.4), they had similar problems. I purchased 2 back in 2002 - one died shortly after - but not from the fungus - cause unknown. The remaining one is doing fine. I keep it in a 15 gal aquarium, minimal gravel substrate, a few artifical plants, and a Hagen (i think) synthetic drip stump with the top removed and a small plastic plant plug inserted - the bottom of the stump is hollow as well - and it hides in either place - comes up for air occasionally - but I only see it after dark. It comes out to hunt the goldfish that temporarily share the setup! Sometimes it will go a week without eating other times it will eat a dozen large (2" goldfish in a couple days. It is about 18" long weighs about 8 oz. I use a submersible heater and keep the water temp at about 80 F, also I'm sure to do water changes at the same temp as well (stress induced immune defeciency seems to be the likely cause of the white spot malady so I due all I can to minimize stress) Filtration is simple 2 small corner bubble filters which I change the poly about every 2 weeks, same with water changes - if it eats heavy and there is a lot of waste I'll do a complete water change - every couple months I add about a 1/2 cup of marine sea salt to the mix - more to sanitize the aquarium than anything. The corner filters cause very little water disturbance. The tank has a screen top with just room lighting - it is kept in my reptile room so ambient temps stay around 80 - 85 F and it is basically 12/12 photoperiod. drop me an e-mail at gartersnk@hotmail.com if you want more details.
-----
Paul Vetrone
North Georgia Herpetological Resources LLC
www.ngaherps.com

I have noticed that many asian imports of various species, seem to come down with some kind of skin infection while aclimating. The ones that survive it, do well. I have seen this with Pipe, file, tentacled and wolf snakes. There maybe a particular fungi or bacteria that their immune systems are not accustomed too. Thats my guess anyway.

Rick,

You mean a similar white fungus or just related skin problems? I have heard that back in the day the Achrocordus were shipped dry, and now they are shipped in water. Maybe humidity or even shipped like tropical fish is important.

The "karungs" do much better in captivity, no?

Similar, I think its something that should be researched some more. Next time I see it I'll see if I can Identify the bacteria or fungi involved. For right now I'll refer to it as the Asian import syndrome. It seems to occur in asian imports regardless of them being aquatic etc, and I can't blame the importer, because the snakes appear healthy when purchased. Heres how it happens.

with in a week or two of obtaining the snake, a skin problem occurs that looks like blister disease or a fungal infection. regardless of treatment, its highly fatal. The snakes that survive or never come down with it turn out to be very hardy and endures with the same husbandtry as the snakes that failed to thrive. With this syndrom, it is common to look for husbandtry errors, but I don't think there are any as survivors and captive bred are maintained in identical conditions or even with less care. The interesting thing to note is the snakes generally appear healthy when they are obtained, suggesting that they didn't bring it with them, and are kept clean and in good environments. That suggest to me that agent that causes this, is common to our environment but not to theirs, and that a small number are genetically immune like the people that have the XY gene and are immune to AIDS. Like many genetic immunities, if the gene is recessive it imparts only a partial effect which results in the snake getting sick, but surviving. I am just speculating of course, but that would explain why so many people who have successfully kept difficult snakes like A. javanicus, or Herpeton tentaculatum, seem to do so with less care then those who fail. Its simply a matter chance, to find a specimen genetically or otherwise immune to the Asian import syndrome.

Hi, I have not kept Gonyosoma, but my vinesnakes(Oxybelis) hold their tongues trait out for an extended period of time and I have guessed by observing them that they use it as a sight to navigate themselves quickly through branches etc. which they can do very quickly. They also do this before striking prey. I think it helps with binocular vision, much the way a cats wiskers do. If the Gonyosoma is an aboreal snake, which I believe it is, then this is probably a convergent adaptation.

Hi Pierson,

Fantastic observation! I am very curious to see some pics of your set-up. Can you post a few showing the water end where you can monitor the snakes underwater?

Thanks in advance,
Jay

hmmm. I might try to set up a tank like that for my mangrove and see if I can see him do it.
-----
Justin