Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Is this rumor that ringneck snakes are lethal to coral snakes true . If so what is the explaination? Thanks

Not in N.A. However, as I'm sure you know, there are numerous corals from entral America south... but I don't know if Diadophis exists down there.

MsTT wrote an editor's note to an article I wrote on maintaining M.fulvius that discusses this issue.

~~Greg~~
Corals

The defensive musk secreted by Diadophis (Florida ringnecks) has been reported by several keepers to cause gaping and other signs of respiratory distress in coral snakes. Deaths have been reported when the ringneck is comparatively large and the coral comparatively small. When the coral is large and the ringneck is small, transient symptoms may be observed. Other factors (like whether or not the ringneck sprays, or has already sprayed before being eaten) may also be involved. I don't know.

I have only anecdotal accounts, not hard scientific evidence. But I have enough convincing ancedotal accounts that I am not feeding any live ringnecks to my corals. If I had to use this species as food, I'd do it frozen/thawed with the tail section removed just above the cloaca. Another keeper I know teases the snakes and forces them to spray repeatedly before using them as food, and says that this has stopped the problems he was previously having when feeding ringnecks to corals.

Thanks to everyone who replied. That's great info. But very suprising when i first heard about it. I was curious if it was true and what could cause it. Now i know.

It's looking very likely that Diadophis may have a much more serious venom than most realize. Many have observed a defensive behaviour that diadophis use when being devoured. They bite the glottis and hang on. Unable to swallow the ringneck the predator usually spits it out eventually and often dies many hours later. The only ssp. this has not been observed in is the northern ssp(can't remember if it is nominate or edwardsi) which apparenly lacks the enlarged rear teeth found in the other subspecies. A friend and I did an experiment using identical sized ground snakes. One was fed to a 16 inch Az. coral and the other fed to a 16 inch D.p.regalis. The regalis bit the prey in the neck region. Foam was observed at the site of the bite and the prey was dead in 92 seconds showing signs of respitory distress. The coral on the other hand definately punctured and envenomated the prey but the prey although showing definate signs of nuerotoxic envenomation was still alive and struggling 45 minutes later as it was swallowed.

I don't have enough data to say for sure whether the coral snake deaths and respiratory symptoms reported by the keepers might not have had something to do with envenomation. I think your anecdotal account is equally valuable information and worth considering and investigating.

No bites from ringnecks were witnessed in the accounts I got, only defensive spraying. Additionally one keeper reports that exhausting the musk glands of a live ringneck immediately before feeding stopped the symptoms in his coral snakes. The musk spray is used by Diadophis as a defense mechanism. Consequently it is my theory that the secretion acts as a respiratory irritant which may prove fatal if given in large doses to small snakes.

Diadophis venom may be an additional factor, or my theory may be wrong and it may be the only factor. I don't know. If we're lucky, someone will come up with some research that answers the question definitively. I solve the problem simply enough for my own practical purposes by not feeding live Diadophis to my snake-eaters, and removing the possibly toxic/irritant parts from frozen/thawed snakes when I do feed them.

but mainly on D.p.regalis which may once again elevated to full species status. A while back this smae discussion came up on the alternate forum. I briefly mentioned a story I had heard about a Diadophis from Florida killing a captive Rhinocheilus that tried to consume it and several other people chimed in with similar tails and observations. Then several people from the northeastern states chimed in and said they had been feeding their local ringnecks to eastern milks and such with no problems whatsoever. Troy Hibbits did his masters thesis on Diadophis and is the one who gave us the info that the northeastern subspecies was the only one without enlarged rear teeth. I would have no doubt the musk has defensive worth in one way or another. I agree on not feeding diadophis to corals and always advise people here in Az. to find another alternative if possible.,