Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Could you guys please post some Chocolate Banana hatchling/adult pics if you have any? I was looking at the pictures of those Davis Co. Black-bellied kings in the classifieds (which I find gorgeous by the way), and they reminded me KINDA of the choc-bananas (which I also find gorgeous lol), and I realized I didn't have any photos for comparison. They don't have to be yours, but if they are I might be interested in some in the future
Thanks a bunch!
~Roo
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"Hail to the King baby..." -Ash, Housewares (Bruce Campbell vs AOD)

This is "Symphnia de Chocolatte"

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~Sasheena

Nope not quite, but she is also a beaut! Such an odd contrast of colours on her, but very pleasing to the eye...to mine at least lol! Where does she hail from Sasheena? By chance does she have an all black-belly? I'd guess no, but I could be wrong...
Thanks!
~Roo
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"Hail to the King baby..." -Ash, Housewares (Bruce Campbell vs AOD)

I have a pair (1.1) from Don Shores plus a sibling (0.1) that might be het.

They are definitely cool looking.

This one is the male.

Kerby...

Kerby...

Cool pattern!

Kerby...

Nice snake. Do you know how these came about? The black-belly is a unique pattern so I got curious as to their origin. Thanks.
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Rick Staub
R&R Reptiles

I got the Chocolate Bananas from Don Shores. He can explain it better.

Kerby...

Awesome snakes and shots, Kerb. Are these from Erik's black belly kings?

Terry

The Chocolate Banana Cal Kings came from Don Shores. But the heads look too much like Mendotas and Davis cal kings.

Kerby...

Kerby...

Kerby...

A question on the offspring you produced from outcrossing the Mendota king to other forms. Did any of the offspring look like the Mendota form? I have always believed the traits to be recessive but not a simple recessive (assuming the Mendotas are similar to the Davis phase in genetics). The only outcross I know of that produced a black-belly (Davis phase) baby was when the breeding was to an albino striped female. In this litter there was only 1 Davis phase and I believe 4 or 5 aberrents, presumably double or triple hets.

Curious as to what you got and certainly interested in what you will produce when you get this crop up to breeding size.
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Rick Staub
R&R Reptiles

>>A question on the offspring you produced from outcrossing the Mendota king to other forms. Did any of the offspring look like the Mendota form? I have always believed the traits to be recessive but not a simple recessive (assuming the Mendotas are similar to the Davis phase in genetics). The only outcross I know of that produced a black-belly (Davis phase) baby was when the breeding was to an albino striped female. In this litter there was only 1 Davis phase and I believe 4 or 5 aberrents, presumably double or triple hets.
>>
>>Curious as to what you got and certainly interested in what you will produce when you get this crop up to breeding size.
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>>Rick Staub
>>R&R Reptiles
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Rick Staub
R&R Reptiles

I see you found the info in my other post.

When I breed Mendota x Mendota I get 100% Mendotas. Two years in a row. These are 4 ft cal kings btw. Most had the aberrant pattern that is associated with the parents, but a couple came out perfectly banded.

And when I bred the Mendota (male) to other female cal kings, they ALL came out looking like the female; no Mendotas and no in-betweens. And none had brown bellies.

This year I will be breeding some of my 50-50s (dad was Mendota, mom was 50-50). I should get some Mendotas. The problem with young cal kings is the small clutch size. So the odds game (het x het) isn't all that conclusive.

When I bred my Albino High White male to a Mendota female she laid 9 eggs (4.5). So these are double hets (albinism & melanism). Some of these have solid white bellies, some have solid brown bellies and some are in between, interesting??? I will be breeding (1.2) of these in '05 so....... I'm assuming I will get Albinos, Mendotas, normals (poss hets, etc..) and 1/16 will be an Albino Mendota (Blizzard).

Kerby...

Kerby,

Thanks for the info. Sorry I was a little confused above, should've gone back and read all the posts again. Rick and I have similar questions I think.

>>When I breed Mendota x Mendota I get 100% Mendotas. Two years in a row. These are 4 ft cal kings btw. Most had the aberrant pattern that is associated with the parents, but a couple came out perfectly banded.
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>>And when I bred the Mendota (male) to other female cal kings, they ALL came out looking like the female; no Mendotas and no in-betweens. And none had brown bellies.
>>

This is a very interesting snake for the genetics and other things. Do they get 4 ft. max? My projects almost all involve smaller snakes. I wonder if any Cal kings are smaller than four ft. for a maximum?

These are nice snakes, both normal patterns and aberrant. I don't mind small clutch sizes either. I just do small, long-range projects mostly. Thanks and holiday greetings to ya'...

Terry

Thanks for the info Kerry. Definitely an interesting genetics project. I can see a future Reptiles article. How is your prose?

Terry. 4 ft is large for a cal king up here in northern Calif. Most are smaller than those found further south, though Mendota is more central so I would expect them to be bigger than my Davis kings. I did get 8 eggs out of one female this year. She came back with 7 in her second clutch too. Not bad though double clutching is not that common for Cal kings from the northern part of the state from my experience.

I would also add that a Davis black-belly to Davis black-belly cross always produces the same phase. There is some variation in the color of the lighter markings, but I have never produced or heard of anyone who produced a snake where the hypermelanism and the abberent pattern are separated, ie normal colors with abberent pattern or normal pattern with melanistic color. Assuming these traits are controlled by 2 separate genes, they must be very strongly linked, possibly right next to each other on the chromosome. The closest I have seen was one snake collected near Stockton that had normal color, normal banding, but had an all dark belly.

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Rick Staub
R&R Reptiles

Well if I can't, then I need a refund on my BS and MA LOL

Kerby...

>>Terry. 4 ft is large for a cal king up here in northern Calif. Most are smaller than those found further south, though Mendota is more central so I would expect them to be bigger than my Davis kings. I did get 8 eggs out of one female this year. She came back with 7 in her second clutch too. Not bad though double clutching is not that common for Cal kings from the northern part of the state from my experience.
>>
>>I would also add that a Davis black-belly to Davis black-belly cross always produces the same phase. There is some variation in the color of the lighter markings, but I have never produced or heard of anyone who produced a snake where the hypermelanism and the abberent pattern are separated, ie normal colors with abberent pattern or normal pattern with melanistic color. Assuming these traits are controlled by 2 separate genes, they must be very strongly linked, possibly right next to each other on the chromosome. The closest I have seen was one snake collected near Stockton that had normal color, normal banding, but had an all dark belly.
>>
>>
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>>Rick Staub
>>R&R Reptiles

Hi Rick. Thanks for the reply.

I've been busy researching the kings of Northern CA and other things. Those black bellies are a very interesting complex and I'll have to look into that some more. Originally, I was interested in the blondes and brunettes that Erik L. wrote about. I never knew that getula had that kind of genetics going on in the wild.

Also, you mentioned that your Davis snakes are probably even smaller than the Mendota. I tend to breed for smallest sizes in my long range projects. So, this is interesting to me. The Davis snake is part of that black-belly complex, correct? I'll be getting back to you by email, probably, when I can find some time. I didn't see the Davis snakes on your site. I have to get used to the locations a little too, as I haven't been to CA in a long time. I was stationed in Monterey way back when.

Good luck with them and keep us posted....Terry.

Hey I have a Mendota too! Cool to see another one. N/P
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2.2 Malaysian Blood Python
1.2 Borneo Black Blood Pythons
1.2 Sumatran Blood Pythons
1.2 Pastel Red Tail Boas
2.4 Ball Python
1.0 Albino Retic
0.1 Tiger Retic
0.1 Albino Burmese Python
1.1 Calibar Python
1.0 Macklotts Python
1.1 Jungle Carpet Python
1.2 Kenyan Sand Boa
0.0.1 Kirklands Water Snake
0.0.1 Florida Banded Water Snake
0.0.1 Costa Rican Parrot Snake
0.0.2 Desert Night Snake
0.0.1 Oreintal Whip Snake
0.0.2 Western Shovel Nose snake
0.0.1 Mandoda King Snake
0.0.1 Mohave Side Winder
0.1 Neon Cape Gopher
1.0 Thia Beauty Snake
0.0.1 Trans Pecos Rat Snake
1.1 Albino Natida King
1.1 Albino Conjuncta King
1.2 Desert Banded Gecko
1.1 Central American Banded Gecko
1.1 Tibetan Frog Eye Gecko
1.1 Dwarf Dune Gecko

from B.H.B. stock.

Kerby...

Why is this snake called a ghost... I've never seen a cali ghost b4, is it like a ghost Brooksi or Honduran where it was bred from two separate morphs or do they occur that way naturally?

According to Brian from B.H.B. the original was a wild-caught; bred and produced hets. He says there is a low fertility when breeding Ghost x Ghost and he has outbred most of his. My female Ghost wasn't quite big enough in '04 so I didn't breed Ghost x Ghost, but I did breed a Ghost x Albino = producing double hets.

So to answer your question, "Ghost" in this case is not a result of two recessive genes.

I now have:

Albinos
Albino Lavenders
Ghost
Mendota/Davis
Blizzards (showing both Albino x Melanistic)
Chocolate Bananas (verdict is still out on what gene that is)
I don't have Blue-eyed Blondes, but I bet they are just Lavenders. Who knows, no one has proved it either way yet.

I also have double hets:
(albino & melanistc)
(ghost & albino)
(albino & lavender)

Not done yet, this year I will be producing more combos. There are a lot possibilities to come yet with cal kings. Soon I will have cal kings that will be displaying 2, 3, and 4 genes at one time. Gotta think of new descriptive names soon LOL

Kerby...

I've heard of these but have yet to see one, what do they look like? Or does the name speak for the appearance? A yellow snake with blue eyes?
I'm getting interested in cali kings all over again... I just sold all the cali kings I had. maybe in a few years when I see what your combos look like I'll add a few to my collection.
Thanx for the reply.
~ZF

They look like Lavenders to me.

Kerby...

Kerby and others,
This pair was sold to me as a blue eyed blonde male and a het female. The female looks Hypomelanistic to me. She has a purplish tint to her that the camera did not capture. The male snake has blue eyes with a hint of red.

What is the story on the blue eyed blonde? They look different than lavenders to me.

What do you guys think of them?
-John Lassiter-

Here they are:

To the best of my knowledge, there are two different forms of this snake currently represented in captivity. The most commonly available form originated from the vicinity of Agoura Hills from individuals collected in the late 1980's. This is the original "lavender" form which has subsequently been crossed with striped coastal forms, producing multitude of striped/ banded, etc. lavender animals which are available today. Because there was no effort made to maintain some form of independence within those original animals, it's doubtful we'll ever know what they really looked like.

The other blue-eyed blonde originates from El Dorado County, near Sacramento. The original animals were caught by a commercial collector named Danny Dorge in the late 1980's, who is no longer alive. The handful of animals he collected were subsequently sold and their fate unknown. Gerold Merker and I were the first people to collect wild adults and produce F1 offspring of the tyrosinase-positive (I believe) inland Cal Kings in 1995. I produced two generations of El Dorado blue-eyed blondes and made the following observation. It didn't seem to be a simple recessive trait (the numbers Punnett numbers weren't right on blue-eyed babies) and was somewhat sexually divergent. Females would mature into a more traditional-appearing "lavender" look with blue eyes and red pupils while males would experience progressive color fading with age, ultimately reaching a strange, mottled "granite-like" look. The first male Gerold caught was the on the cover of one issue of Reptiles, though I don't remember which one. I no longer work with these animals but Gerold still does and is probably the only person able to offer legitimate offspring from this area.

Tha sad part of the story: This snake will be extinct in less than five years, probably closer to two. The spot where I collected my first El Dorado Blonde is now a strip mall parking lot and the rest of the area will be gone soon. That's the story...

Thanks for the info, has anyone bred a Blue-eyed Blonde to a Lavender to see if they are separate genes?

If you breed a Blue-eyed Blonde to a Blue-eyed Blonde, do you get all Blue-eyed Blondes?

Kerby...

El Dorado Blue-eyed Blonde X El Dorado Blue-eyed Blonde = several black and cream babies, some brown and cream babies, and maybe one or two blondes. Never got a full litter of blondes, despite two seemingly homozygous parents.

Hi Erik,

I just got through reading your story again a few days ago, although I didn't keep the whole magazine. It was called, "Northern California's Two Rarest Kingsnakes." It was dated, October, 1999, and I imagine the magazine was the one with the kingsnake on the cover. There were several very cool pics in the article, both the blondes and the black banded snakes were way cool snakes. Really bad news about the disappearing habitat.

Happy holidays to ya'....

Terry

But it looks like a striped Lavender. Breed him to a Lavender and if you get normals then it is a separate gene. Lavenders are quite variable depending upon what the cal king looked like (quite variable BTW) before the Lavender.

Kerby...

I am breeding it this year to the so called het blue eyed blonde (if that exists?)
I have a question though, Do your lavenders have blue eyes with a red iris? I have never kept Lavenders. Post a pic if possible.
Also thanks for the info on the origin. It was more detailed and informative than what I have learned from other sources.
Thanks again,
-John Lassiter-

These are my 01 pair from vivid.

oops , female.

Looks very similar to my male.
Thanks for the pics.
-John Lassiter-

YES, they look very similar.
Jim

I was wondering if those are cal kings? they are awesome animals
Wayne

Those sure are some spectacular animals. Also thanks for the comparison pics of the Davis & Mendota co snakes as well.

~Roo
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"Hail to the King baby..." -Ash, Housewares (Bruce Campbell vs AOD)