Reptile & Amphibian Forums

The wait is over those who doubted the genetics of the Mojave
now have their proof we think Mojave's just went up again!!!!!!!

Merry Christmas from Joe & Wes at MKR

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It's a Girl!

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Congrats to you both in proving out what we've all been waiting a long time to see! So now let's count the ways, to make a Lucy that is...

Thanks,

Debra and Diana
Camlon Reptiles

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You the man Wes & Joe
She is beautiful

DragonDavy

Wouldn't that properly be termed 'You da MEN'??? LOL

very nice looking snake and a big congrats to both Joe and Wes.

VOT

I was wondering has a male blue eyed lucy been produced yet? Thanks

Vin Russo produced a male blue-eyed leucistic in 2002 from a pair of his high yellow lemons but I don't see any breeding results posted for it in 2004 or genders on the two blue-eyed leucistics he produced in 2003. Ralph Davis produced 2 male blue-eyed leucistics in 2003 clutch #42 from lesser X phantom. MorphKingReptiles produced 3 male blue-eyed leucistics from lesser X Mojave earlier in 2004.

I don't know if the imported leucistic male "snoopy" that died was a blue eyed or black eyed but perhaps we will see leucistic offspring that double secret project soon.
RDR Birthing Record

Yes we produced three this season from Lesser Platinum to Mojave breedings..Compare these two brothers to the Mojave X Mojave pic .....

Joe & Wes

Morph King Reptiles

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BLUE EYED LUCY WHERE YOU AT !!!

I had a feeling that mojave x mojave would produce leucistic but I didn't think it was going to happen till next year due to the clutch size. If I remember correctly, some of the clutch didn't make it and you only had two eggs.

The snake GODS are shining on MKR. MKR rocks!

Michael Ibanez

Congratulations on such a beautiful snake. She appears to have a much lightened version of the creamy sides and purplish back of a Mojave. Verrrry cool.

My hands down favourite so far of the various Leucistics, Ivories, or NERD's Pearls.

Leucistic, Ivory, Super Mojave, 'insert name of your choice here', whatever, she is HOT. I'd call her 'Paris'.

Congrats again on her and an excellent 2004 for you two!

BB

And thanks for posting!

.
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Tosha

1.1.0 Ball Python (Harry and Fluffy)
0.1.0 Siberian Husky (Kita)
0.2.0 Feline (Pippen and Pandora)
0.0.1 Dessert Tortoise (Pope)
5.4.2 Fish (1,2,3,4...)
0.0.1 Frog rescued from pool skimmer
0.0.2 Lizards rescued from pool skimmer

Congrats to you guys. She is smoking. What was in the other egg? Did it hatch?

>>The wait is over those who doubted the genetics of the Mojave
>>now have their proof we think Mojave's just went up again!!!!!!!
>>
>>Merry Christmas from Joe & Wes at MKR
>>
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Thomas Jones
aligatorhunter@earthlink.net

The other hatchling from this clutch is a normal male ....

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NP
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Guy
db Reptiles.

Very, very nice...All the best.

Michael

Thanks for posting pictures of this beautiful python and thanks for proving out what we`ve suspected and hoped for. Happy Holidays, Mark Petros

Yeaaaa Baby!!! Congrats Guys! Keith
earths-exotics.com

AWSOME! Brother
Keep it up, & see you soon!
Merry Christmas Guys
Brandon & Kim

B&T Morphs.
Mojave
Pinstripe
Pastel
Ghost
Spider
Caramel Albino
Albino
Pieds
& a Schnauzer

I didn't think it would happen with a clutch of 2, but now we know for sure! 1 in 4 odds hitting in a 2 egg clutch! You guys were smiled on. Awesome job, guys. What was the sibling? Keep up the great work.
Justin J
AAR (ball pythons too)

That is one of the best Leucistics I have seen...

Congratulations...!!!

What makes this the best one you have seen?
And what are other ones you saw? Who owned them?
Just wondering.

BTW nice pictures.....lots of lucies.
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RicK @ BbI

Ball Boutique,Inc.
Proud sponsor of this forum

I can't hear you over the sound of all those sour grapes being squashed...

I understand that you have this apparent need to follow me from thread to thread...

Making your inane comments...

But is it really necessary to rain on Morph King's parade...???

I can't hear you over the sound of all those sour grapes being squashed...

Not I with sour grapes......

I understand that you have this apparent need to follow me from thread to thread...
Not all threads...just some

Making your inane comments...

inane? A lucy is a lucy. The only difference is blue or black eyes. How inane is that? We are not comparing one pastel verses another pastel are we?

But is it really necessary to rain on Morph King's parade...???
No rain I am very happy for them or anyone else that produces a lucy. Just seems there are more lucies then snows.....the other white snake.....
Joe and Wes are good people....have no proplem with their success....

What makes their lucy better looking then others? My original question. Is it better then Eric's, Ralph's, Pete's, or Clark's? I do not see a difference. Looks like the same as the pied white. Anyone else see a difference?
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RicK @ BbI

Ball Boutique,Inc.
Proud sponsor of this forum

Get it right RicK! Clark doesn't have one, the one on his web site is mine!! Eric

Sorry Eric...thought they produced one.
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RicK @ BbI

Ball Boutique,Inc.
Proud sponsor of this forum

I have not seen any leucistic ball pythons but I READ that some lucies are not solid pied white. I could be wrong but I know I read it on another forum.

Congratulations to MKR for producing an awesome looking ball python.

Michael Ibanez

Glad you caught that Eric! You deserve all the credit for the black eye leucy! You earned that with those beautiful snakes!

I'll tell you why.

All of the true leucism I have seen in other species shows to be pure white. Pure white with no color or pattern and coal black eyes. None, not even a trace. In rat snakes you can see this to be the case. I have heard the reason for pink eyed leucistic rats is b/c the albino trait is also being shown in those particular pink eyed individuals. Every once in awhile I see a leucistic rat with black eyes for sale but not often. Makes enough sense to me, I may be wrong about that though.

In that ball I can clearly make out a strip going down the spine. The snake is not solid white with no traces of pattern.

Just my 2 cents.

Like a hatchling Leucistic Texas Ratsnake the pink you see will turn snow white with no visable pattern. Take a look at the other Lucy pics on MKR's web site. www.morphkingreptiles.com

np
Serpent's Den

All of the baby leucistic ratsnakes I have seen don't have a yellow line down their spines.

All I'm saying is that if you ask me, that snake is displaying a different gene than the traditional leucism.

I didn't notice yellow...I'll look again.....

nice snake.......it'll look 100 times better after it grows for 2 years and the white stands out more like a color than on babies.......(babies look too "mooshy".......

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You do see markings on leucistic animals in other reptile species. Leucistic texas rats have dark colored scales on them, some leucistic rainbows have color on them. Their have not been enough produced leucistics produced to make any assumptions about! I have seen the majority of the leucistic balls produced and the blue eyes and the black eyes have a different look! The two types that Ralph has produced, the ones with stripes and the ones with nothing but blue eyes are white but have a different look to the scales. The leucy from England has black eyes and is the only ones that does, has a more smooth look to them but they have orange spots on them. Time will tell as they grow up and more are produced so we will have to wait! MKR leucy has the stripe just like Vin's and some of Ralphs!

Phil

Most leucistic rats I have seen as well as all of the ones I have owned never had a hint of color or pattern on them. All I am saying is that the true leucism gene is different than what is being expressed here and in other animals that have any color and/or pigment.

I have no doubt that this will end up being like albinos where different types are named, and that's all fine and dandy. It's just that in 15 years any leucistic animals I have seen no matter if it was small animal, reptile, or fish had no pattern or color whatsoever and had coal black eyes. I'm just saying the the true leucism gene is not being expressed here. It's not meant to take anything from this animal, it's just how I see it.

It's a great animal and Wes and Joe should be proud to hatch something that beautiful...... But what is really great is that this gives you another new bandwagon to jump on.... (seeing as your last one broke down kind of sudden like...) But what the heck.... Go for it I say..... maybe you can trade them a het pair-of-gones for it....... I just hope that Joe and Wes have good chainmaile armour covering their backs...

Love ya.

VOT

Another well thought out and intelligent post using your "anonymous" alter ego...

Let's see now...
"MarkS"...
"VoiceOfTruth"...

How many other names do you use to post under...???

For your information, I have never met Wes and Joe...
I have never talked with Wes and Joe...
I do not have any desire to talk with Wes and Joe...
I simply happen to think that Leucistic is beautiful...
Personally, I could not care less whether you are pleased with me for posting congratulations or not...

Despite what you may believe, I do not have to have an "ulterior motive" to congratulate someone on their accomplishments...
You may...
But I do not...

I have been "yelled at" behind the scenes for posting congratulations to some beautiful animals that Jeremy Stone produced...
And now my simple congratulatory post to Morph King is being assailed by the usual motley crew...
And you know what...???
I don't care...
I will post what I want...
To who I want...
Without seeking the pre-approval of you and your crew of malcontents...

By the way...
What do all of the malcontents have in common...???
Hmmm...
Seem to me they are all members of "one of the other forums"...

Would you care to explain to the folks on this forum exactly why my post was singled out for comment by yourself and the other malcontents...???
Was I the only person who congratulated Morph King on producing a beautiful animal...???

Go ahead...
Pick on every post that I make on this forum...
Continue with your transparent attempts to muzzle me from expressing my opinion...
I'll respond to you when I choose...
And ignore you when I choose...
This is, after all, an open forum...
Isn't it...???

You got the response you were looking for Gail(are you not banned from here?) It is a beautiful animal but it is not one of the best! All of the ones with the stripe look the same(they have blue eyes, white and a stripe) you could put them all together and never tell them apart!

What is with the motley crue comment? have you seen the pic of Craig?? dont get better than that!

Malcontents= MiniMe Brian Taylor, Thundermule=soon to know but they are from your forum so why throw stones and coat hangers? You act like you are above all this but you forget you are no different!

"You got the response you were looking for Gail(are you not banned from here?)"

Still trying the old "Gail" ploy, huh...???
Only one person uses the member name "Renaissance"...
And it is not Gail...

Since you and the rest of the "crew from one of the other forums" seem so determined to find out why I regard this Leucistic as "one of the best", let me explain...

1) This Leucistic has head scalation that is typical ball python. Certain of the other Leucistics have a "pebbly" scalation on the head, which reminds me more of an Angolan python than a ball python. I am not disparaging the "pebbly-head" Leucistics, but merely stating that I prefer the Leucistics that have the more typical ball python head scalation.

2) This Leucistic has eyes that are - in my opinion - more in direct proportion to the head. Certain of the other Leucistics have what I perceive to be a "bug-eyed" appearance; their eyes appear to be oversized for the dimensions of their head. Again, I am not disparaging the "bug-eyed" Leucistics, but merely stating that I prefer the Leucistics that have more balanced facial features.

Personally, I believe that all Leucistics are beautiful. As with other morphs, however, there are discernable differences in their phenotypes. Based upon my own opinion of the differences in the phenotypes, I form my own opinion regarding the relative beauty of these animals. My own opinion was - and still is - that this Leucistic produced by Wes and Joe is one of the best that I have seen. Unfortunately for you and your way of thinking, I am just as entitled to my opinion as you are to yours. You may not regard it as "one of the best", but I certainly do.

Nigel.

I love how you call it "the other forum" lmao

Well in regards to you statements
1. That animal has yet to shed and it looks like all the other blue eyes before they shed! When that animal sheds it will look the same, when this does will you change your opinion?

2.Put your glasses on and look at the pic again! Go to the "other forum birthing records page" and look at the pics there, they are the same!

You are correct that we are all entitle to our own opinions and "for my way of thinking" I think it is the same! I think I have seen a few more of those born and raised up to give me a little better idea from looking at a picture on a website! It is a beautiful animal and I am happy for them but if this was a few weeks back I doubt that would have been your opinion! Troll all you want, Dont lead us to believe that YOU are the only one who posts as renissance!

Spell it right - Minyme - I'm BT....

Noted, sorry! All of these aliases get confusing! It would be so much easier if you would post as yourself! I knew you were BT= Brian Taylor from your previous post, it was easy when you posted from work!

I only work nights - so this IP is from home...I would have posted under my name but since LardA$$ had the whole Austin Powers thing going on...Well you know...

So you think I'm the voiceoftruth eh nigel ol' bean? I'd like to know why you think that... Is it because I've gotten into a few flamewars with your wife on 'the other forum'? Is it because I scolded her for her crude language and actions so that you had to come save her? Hmmm, you know thats not so bad... Maybe I COULD be the Voice Of Truth. It's certainly better then being called 'treacherous backstabber' or 'scumbag' I certainly wouldn't want to be saddled with any of THOSE labels, would you? I guess when you put it into perspective, the 'Voice Of Truth' is not such a bad name after all....

Now, really it's rather unseemly to be debating this on Wes and Joes thread. They hatched out a beautiful Leucistic ball python in a way that was much anticipated by all other owners of the original Snakekeeper line of Mojave... (as opposed to those people why have look-a-like animals that are NOT from the snakekeeper line) They have every right to be proud of their accomplishment and I wish them congratulations.

Perhaps we could continue this on YOUR forum? Unfortunatly it seems that I am not allowed to have a login or a password on that forum... A meer oversight I'm sure, since I'm sure you would never want to "attempt to muzzle me from expressing my opinion..."

ttfn

MarkS

>>Another well thought out and intelligent post using your "anonymous" alter ego...
>>
>>Let's see now...
>>"MarkS"...
>>"VoiceOfTruth"...
>>
>>How many other names do you use to post under...???
>>
>>For your information, I have never met Wes and Joe...
>>I have never talked with Wes and Joe...
>>I do not have any desire to talk with Wes and Joe...
>>I simply happen to think that Leucistic is beautiful...
>>Personally, I could not care less whether you are pleased with me for posting congratulations or not...
>>
>>Despite what you may believe, I do not have to have an "ulterior motive" to congratulate someone on their accomplishments...
>>You may...
>>But I do not...
>>
>>I have been "yelled at" behind the scenes for posting congratulations to some beautiful animals that Jeremy Stone produced...
>>And now my simple congratulatory post to Morph King is being assailed by the usual motley crew...
>>And you know what...???
>>I don't care...
>>I will post what I want...
>>To who I want...
>>Without seeking the pre-approval of you and your crew of malcontents...
>>
>>By the way...
>>What do all of the malcontents have in common...???
>>Hmmm...
>>Seem to me they are all members of "one of the other forums"...
>>
>>Would you care to explain to the folks on this forum exactly why my post was singled out for comment by yourself and the other malcontents...???
>>Was I the only person who congratulated Morph King on producing a beautiful animal...???
>>
>>Go ahead...
>>Pick on every post that I make on this forum...
>>Continue with your transparent attempts to muzzle me from expressing my opinion...
>>I'll respond to you when I choose...
>>And ignore you when I choose...
>>This is, after all, an open forum...
>>Isn't it...???
>>
>>

He's not worth it... I know who you really are.... We'll get together again real soon and this time I'll buy the beer..... He's a Wanker.... Don't let it get to you... Not that anyone is ever going to read this anyway on the second page.... LOL

See ya later.

VOT

Right on top of things as always I see. LOL Thanks for the support even if it is a little late. See Ya in a couple weeks. I hope it's not Lite beer this time...

Mark

>>He's not worth it... I know who you really are.... We'll get together again real soon and this time I'll buy the beer..... He's a Wanker.... Don't let it get to you... Not that anyone is ever going to read this anyway on the second page.... LOL
>>
>>See ya later.
>>
>>VOT

Not a problem, I'll make sure that it's that extra pale ale stuff that you are so fond of.... Niggle is a dumba$$ and has $hit for brains as far as I can tell.... It'll be interesting to see if anyone is watching this far back and actually sees this response.... Niggle is not a breeder.... (his nasty beotch wife is) he is not an innovator, he basically is clueless as far as I can see.... I hope he sleeps with one eye open...... I, and most people that I know, have absolutly no respect for him whatsoever..... He is an arrogant jacka$$ that loves to hear himself talk. He THINKS that he knows whats up... but he really doesn't have a clue.... It's kind of sad really..... Niggle.... You $uck.....

VOT

I agree, with all the lucy's produced, we have seen some variable amounts of striping down the backs. From the pics provided, it seems this animal is completely white with no striping. Definatly a fine looking lucy!!

Jason

not to get a mojave when they were 5k........

I hate stuff

Awesome snake guys.....

Raul

I hear that!

Got to love that hindsight. Should have bought into Mojave and ghost back in the day. Two of the few snakes that have actually gone up in price for a significant period. Of course I didn't have the money to buy them then and even if I could figure out if anything will go up in the next few years I don't have the money to buy it now.

She is a real beauty! You should be up all night doing the happy snake dance!

Markus
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www.ballpython.ca

What do you thinks mojaves will be selling for now and do you think the price will stay at an elevated price for long last time they had lucy from mojave x lesser platnium the price went up but went right back down just curious
mojave price ????

jc

BLUE EYED LUCY !!! CONGRATES

It looks great!!!!!!!!

That puts a smile on soo many peoples faces

You guys scored, thanks for believing in the project in the begining. You were the biggest supporter from the start.

It is great to see people WIN in a project.

Dan & Colette

Congrats on being the founder of the mojave ball python. I wish you two the best with your bp ventures. I can't wait to see what else is in store for the mojave.

Happy Holidays.

Michael Ibanez

N/P
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I was waiting for that pic!!!!!!!! Congrats guys!! I'm interested to see if the lesser platty will go down in price or the mojave will go up? Hope my mojave poss het albino hits this year!!!! Great work guys, and I hope everyone has a great breeding season out there.

Mike Brooks
TNS Reptiles
Long Island, NY
631-732-4233
Link

Eating rats and growing like a champ...

Ron

I hear ya!! Maybe they will stay up in price till I can produce a few.

>>Eating rats and growing like a champ...
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>Ron
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Thomas Jones
aligatorhunter@earthlink.net

Nice one Wes and Joe! Pity it is only the 'common' blue eyed morph (joke) Well done lads,have a great Xmas and an even better '05! Eric

Didn't you only have 2 or 3 eggs from that Mojave x Mojave clutch?

The odds were definately in your favor!

www.serpentsden.com

Serpent's Den

There are a lot of people with mojaves and other snakes that produce lucys.This morph will become the next pastel.Something everyone will have.I'm not raining down on anyone I'm just stating fact.Personally I'm going to hopefully produce a few and my customers I sold some of my animals to will produce them also.

Even though there are different ways to produce a leucistic ball python, doesn't necessarily mean it will drop as quick as you think. You still have to invest in the animals, whether it be a lesser, mojave, etc. It takes time to grow the females up and luck to produce one.

I see them being the next pieds. Everyone who ever wanted a pied-white snake is gonna want one.

There are quite a few lucies around but none for sale.

I'm willing to bet that the prices of female mojaves will jump a few grand. This is a no brainer.

It really depends on what you like in ball pythons. Do you like white or not. Some people like lucies while others breed for awesome looking color combinations.

Michael Ibanez

I agree. I don't think there is a price yet for leucies to go down. Also, compare leucy to super pastel but a few years behind. They aren't giving away super pastels yet and leucy is even more striking.

A super pastel can be combined with spiders, mojaves, albinos, axanthics, clowns, I think we understand. A Leucy is just that I think it will override everything you try to cross it with, so what does it do??? You get a white snake, as lovely as they are and all that is all you can do, kinda the end of the line isn't it?
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Nita Hamilton
5.9 Normal BP's
1.0 Het Orange Ghost
1.4 Humans (DH, Me and 3 daughters)

"You get a white snake, as lovely as they are and all that is all you can do, kinda the end of the line isn't it?"

But what an end of the line! I guess each will have there own taste but I've been waiting a long time just to see a leucistic ball python. Somewhere I have a photo (remember the old film kind?) of Bob Clark's leucistic Burmese python. Dang was that girl impressive!

My point was that you should compare homozygous to homozygous (i.e. leucy to super pastel) and not homozygous to het (leucy to regular pastel). I guess we'll have to wait a couple decades to see if leucy or super pastel stabilize at the higher price. Homozygous albinos have been produced for 12 years now and I still don’t think they have reached their stabilization price but perhaps the visible hets will help the homozygous co-dominants to get there quicker.

np.

nm

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Dragons by Nature

Congratulations, gentlemen. I know I expressed some doubt that mojave x mojave would produce leucistics... I am happy for you guys. I still really wish the "Super" mojave wasn't a leucistic.

Why?

1. Because the lucy had already been produced and there was already more than one avenue to get there.

2. I was really hoping for something different, something new. It would have been nice to see something similar to the difference between pastels and super pastels. Or for it to produce something totally unexpected.

I still love mojaves and can't wait to be able to get one.

Merry Christmas guys, it looks like Santa brought you one hell of a gift!
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Sometimes, things are exactly as they appear...sometimes.

np

Thanks for sharing and bring good news to many this Christmas season. I think you played Santa pretty well this year. Please come again next year with similar gifts.

GOD Bless
Andre
ASFReptiles

Merry Christmas!!!
and It has aready been a Happy New Year. Thanks again.

n/p

That animal is gorgeous! Period!

I am jealous!

It is so gorgeous it needs to be harder to make!!!!!! Like a SNOW!

Kevin
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www.newenglandreptile.com
The Most Extensive Collection of Ball Python Mutations in Captivity

We feel the same about your Coral GLow. That is one awsome animal with loads of potential. Good to hear form you.

Joe and Wes
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I know you guys were disappointed with the clutch size but I would imagine you couldn't be happier with the odds on that 2 egg clutch. Congratulations on putting to rest what the Mojave is capable of producing. I think we all needed this!