Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Just wondering here, I picked up the Jan 05 issue of Reptiles due to the article on Ball Pythons. The article states that Pewter Pastels are a Pastel Jungle X Cinamon Pastel, and that the Amber is a Pastel Jungle X Cinamon Pastel? Also aren't a pastel and a pastel jungle the same thing? Then why is s Blonde Lesser a Pastel X lesser Platinum and a Platty Pastel a Pastel Jungle X Lesser Platinum? The genetics can get confusing enough with out multiple names for the same thing, anyone with an answer for me?
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Nita Hamilton
5.9 Normal BP's
1.0 Het Orange Ghost
1.4 Humans (DH, Me and 3 daughters)

Well the only correct way to address this is this technically.

Disclaimer: The following information may be incorrect, but is to my understanding only.

>Pewter Pastels are a Pastel Jungle X Cinamon Pastel, and that the Amber is a Pastel Jungle X Cinamon Pastel<

Pewter Pastels are in my understanding Pewters (for short) proven by Greg Graziani from a Pastel x Cinamon pastel. Amber pastels are from a Pastel x (thought to be) Cinamon pastel produced by Amir from Sunset Reptiles. Truely the differences in the offspring are visably different. Unfortunately without proper permission I can not post the photos to clarify this.

>Also aren't a pastel and a pastel jungle the same thing?<

Yes a pastel and a jungle pastel are the same morph.

>Then why is s Blonde Lesser a Pastel X lesser Platinum and a Platty Pastel a Pastel Jungle X Lesser Platinum?<

Pastels come in different lines of genetics. Blonde Lessers are the line of Blonde Pastel x Lesser Platinum. A regular Pastel x Lesser Platinum is simply a Lesser Pastel (aka Pastel Lesser). There is a visable difference in the lines of pastel which have been crossed with the different lines of pastels.

(On a side note: There are snowballs that are created with different lines of axanthic. The VPI line of snowball is visably the 'cleanest' and faintest pattern in comparison to the Joliff and Snakekeeper line of snowball. All are still called Snowballs.)

Hopefully this helps a tiny bit. . .maybe not. Ball python genetics just get more confusing as you go along.
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Violette Garcia
www.shakahnsgrove.com

Pastel is the same as Pastel Jungle.
Pewter is from a specific line of pastel jungle - Greg Grazianis to a cinnamon pastel.

Amber is from a pastel jungle to a cinnamon pastel. The line of cinnamon I think may have been different. It makes a slightly different animal with more side fading on it. It is still basically a type or form of the pewter pastel(Greg's name, he did it first). SLightly different ingredients give it a variation.

Platty - Ralph's adult male makes lesser platties. They are the offspring from his original male. They do not show the exact trait as the father. They are still missing something that removes more of the pattern. Hence the platty makes lesser platties. Ralph was able to breed the adult back to some of his offspring to make full platties. The extra gene that makes the platty condition is unclear(I think at this point). It may be a recessive gene, I don't think Ralph has found out what it is or what that gene looks like by itself in a ball python.

A butter ball is very similar to a lesser platty but it is not the offspring of the original platty. Since this is the case those snakes are named their own morph. We do not know if they can make a snake like a platty, we do not know if they can make a blue eyed leucistic. As it stands they are distinct just as we have seen variations in other morphs. It helps the markert discern between close mutations.

Many of the morpsh we have and breed are from imported animals that vary genetically. These variations are often the same morph but have some distinct qualities. The names help! Kev@NERD
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www.newenglandreptile.com
The Most Extensive Collection of Ball Python Mutations in Captivity

I was under the impression that the Amber pastel had been made from a yellow belly pastel to a cinnamon. Or maybe the other way around but I am thinking I was told that the yellow belly did play a part in the Amber pastel. I saw the ambers in Daytona but cannot remember totally what was said when i asked about what produces the AMBER. Someone correct me if I am wrong. Thanks David

I will slap down on you with the SNAKE GOD roll of newspaper and tell you that you are WRONG!

I think that was a pastel bred to a cinny that was an import. I don't think the yellow belly had anything to do with that ....... do I feel the roll of newspaper coming at me?

I was not that stunned by the yellow belly pastel, if I did not know any better I may not have realized that is was anything but a straight up pastel.

Not trying to be a Richard!
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www.newenglandreptile.com
The Most Extensive Collection of Ball Python Mutations in Captivity

The ambers are from a pastel to a animal that looks similar to a cinny but it is a little different.

The pastel lesser is just that= Lesser X Pastel and the blonde lesser is a Lesser X Blonde Pastel.

Hope that clears up some of the questions! Do I get hit with the paper now?

I will agree the Yellow Belly Pastel dod not look much different to me!

Well the YB doesn't look much different from a normal until you look at it's belly. A YB pastel is just a pastel that's het for ivory. Why should it look different when a regular YB doesn't look much different from a normal except for it's marker. Well which half of the BP community can't tell exactly what it is anyhow.

I think it looks just like it's supposed to like a pastel with the YB belly markings.
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Violette Garcia
www.shakahnsgrove.com

Hence why the "Amber " is not a yellow belly pastel. The pastel yellow belly is not different enough to get an uppity name..
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www.newenglandreptile.com
The Most Extensive Collection of Ball Python Mutations in Captivity

How can you get a Amber and Pewter from the same Type of breeding? If a Pastel X Cinnamon produces PEWTERS by several different people and a Pastel X Cinnamon produce AMBERS and NO PEWTERS or The other way around. Has anyone other than Snakes at Sunset produced AMBERS? Has anyone gotten Ambers and pewters in the same clutch? If the Cinnamon that produced the Amber was different then it shouldn't be called a cinnamon, Since cinnamons were already proven to produce PEWTERS when bred to a PASTEL. thanks David

Only Amir has produced the Ambers! It was from a imported animal that looked something like a cinny but it is not. Ambers and Peuters have not been produced in the same clutch that I know of. He will have to come up with a name for the new animal then it will make it easier to understand!

That makes sense, unless he is producing supercinny's with his "cinamon pastel" it isnt' a cinny right? Annoys me when people call something by a name given to a specific phenotype when they have yet to prove it is that!
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Nita Hamilton
5.9 Normal BP's
1.0 Het Orange Ghost
1.4 Humans (DH, Me and 3 daughters)