Reptile & Amphibian Forums

many zoos and private breeders are micro chipping various species it is my opinion that private ownership of crocs days are numbered and owners need to figure out a way to protect themselves and there animals also to make a positive way to identify the origin of said animals also to identify any hybreds in the mix a private data base would be ideal for private keepers it would be a way to curb inbreeding in the future as with morlets and cubans or even the new novagunaia that is comeing in to this country i would love to hear any thoughts on this subject

...and there are no doubt countless opinions. I would say that the pet trade as a whole, needs to be curbed. Hybridizing caimans and crocs, just so they can be put up for sale on the web as pets...should most likely have some more restrictions, especially when you see the number of Nile crocs imported in the past few year s and all of those floating around.

I would think a simple solution to the problem is this: 1) Ban the sale of hatchling gators and crocs that are less than 5' long. IF you truly have the capabilities and facilties to have a croc that big, AND can demostrate a valid need for having it (education, exhibition, whatever) than allow the sale of these big crocs such as those from NCEI. This will weed out A) The dealers from trying to have a quick turnaround on the tiny hatchlings they import and making a quick profit and B)Require breeders to put a little more effort into ensuring the animals are going to a "PERMANENT" home, and not gonna be looking for a zoo to take them in 3 years!

Just my 2 cents. I, too, bought a nice little nile/morelets hybrid 5 years ago, from Mitch at DRB....its a great croc, and I still have him. We had him displayed at a serpentarium for 3 years, but they folded very quickly, as the owner just didn't have the dedication. I now have the croc, and while "Handleable" it's not tame. No healthy croc should be!! Then again, he doesn't go out of his way to bite or bother you.

My crocodilian field sightings.

This information came from a reputable source at USFWS

Regarding your question about hybrid crocodiles, Nile x Morelet, Siamese x Morelet, Nile x Cuban, Cuban x Saltwater, etc.. These specimens would be considered listed as Appendix I under CITES. Any hybrid of an Appendix I species with any other species is treated as Appendix I to prevent the reduction in protections for the Appendix I population that may result from attempts to avoid the restrictions of Appendix I through the process of hybridization.

Your assertion, that the hybrid of two species listed under the U.S.Endangered Species Act is not listed, is questionable since here again there would appear to be a deliberate attempt to avoid the prohibitions of the Act through hybridization. I believe that a solicitors decision on this matter is still pending. While it is clear that the hybrid of a listed with a non-listed specimen is exempt from the restrictions of the
Act, Most all Crocodilian species are listed on the act and further note that purposeful hybridization of protected species to skirt the protections may be considered a violation of the U.S.Endangered Species Act.

Mr. Harris,

Just as you mentioned there would be many and varied opinions on this subject. While I agree with the overall idea, I personally feel that your idea needs a little revision. Most of your feelings on this subject I believe is that personal ownership should not be allowed. I gather this primarily from your "simple solution". Unfortunately I feel that you miss some of the points of captive ownership. Who in this forum wishes to start out with a 5 foot crocodilian so that you can miss all the wonderful stages of life that these crocodilians have. Some going from as small as 12 inches to as large as 12 feet. Guess what!? You will only get to see 7 feet worth of stages of it's life. I feel that in order to own or sell you need to fill out an application, much like you would for ownership of a gun. They do a background check, see if husbandry courses would be necessary, etc.
Next, if that was the case, breeders would start using growth enforcement methods to boost the animals size within a short amount of time, just so that they can be made available for the next applicable purchaser. This would be jeoprodizing the animals health for a sale. Once again, the animal would be getting punished for human stupidity.
I believe that you should have to have an inspection done by a qualified officer to make sure that the animal is in good health and so forth twice yearly.
Veterinary checks should be mandatory, by a QUALIFIED vet. P.I.T. tagging is fine as long as a qualified veterinarian does the work and not just some stupid directions given by DNR officers like they did here in Ohio. (Use a power drill and drill through the shell of the turtle and drop in the tag and seal the wound with dental cement) (yeah,right). You shouldn't have to be a wildlife rehabilitator, educator, zoo or something of that nature to own a crocodilian. But you should have experience with other reptiles, be willing to make the committment, be able to afford the upkeep, and be able to provide adequate housing. Most of the people in this forum are private keepers. Most of these people sound perfectly knowledgeable about these animals and give the animals as good of a life as they can. If we allow government to make decisions for us, we are all F****D! We shoud be able to make proper decisions ourselves. At the same time, we should be willing to make necessary changes to keep these animals out of the hands of people who shouldn't have them. If the process is made tough to go through for ownership of the animal, people who just want a cool pet, won't go to those lengths for it. They want something simple to get ahold of. They want to pay the money and get the animal, and show it off. That's it. Most of those people have absolutely NO DESIRE to give the animal proper care. So why would they be willing to take a husbandry course? Hell, make it in another state.
People who are serious about the animals, would be willing to do what they have to do. Everyone shouldn't be subject to punishment because a few people are idiots. That is just my opinion.

Chris