Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I saw this ad on kingsnake today and wondered if anyone else had heard of this.
Am I understanding the ad correctly? Are they claiming that Labyrinth balls are a co-dominant trait and that when bred together some of the offspring are all black. (like a super pastel does in pastel breedings)
Or are they advertizing snakes that happen to be Labyrinths that are hets for charcoal black color?
Here is the link. Has anyone else heard of this being true?

market.kingsnake.com/detail.php?cat=32&de=279405

np

Gulf Coast's 'Labyrinth' line of Cinnamon Pastel was the first to be proven co-dominant, with the 'Black Ball' being the super.

Black Balls are also referred to as Super Cinnammons, and sometimes as Cocoa Balls.

BB

Gulfcoast reptiles has proven their Labrynths to be genetic co-dom and apparently the same genetic make-up as Cinammons. I saw both the Labs and the all black/chocolate ball first hand at Tampa show and they are gorgeous. We were especially interested as we have a Labyrnth that we will try to prove genetic this season and they gave us hope.

How would I go about proving one. Do I need to have two?
Or is it more like a pastel type genetics where the first breeding can be to a normal and you would have 50% Labyrinth babies?
Also is mine a Labyrinth Ball?

I got her from a pet shop in FL for only $50.00 I decided to get her because she looked very different from all the others in her cage. I don't know if you can tell in this photo but when you hold her next to another normal ball she looks really different and somone told me they thought she was a Labyrinth.

I actually have a similar situation and the responses you will receive will most likely be to prove it out. If your BP has not come from a proven parent the only way to be sure is to breed it. Then breed one of it sibs back to it. Great looking snake. Here is mine. She is a female and about 700g now. Maybe next year. The first year I will be breeding her to my pastel male, should be awesome looking pastel if only for the patterns.

Neither yours nor mine look anything like a cinnamon pastel and most likely aren't. But you can try to breed them out to try to find something new! This is what keeps us going and keeps us finding new morphs every year. You never know! Here is a pic of her as a baby!

Labyrinth balls don't produce the super cinny. Infact those cinnies look nothing like labbies. LOL...Anyways, no labby line is proven. I do wish someone would prove out a line, Bred into albinos would be awesome! They are on of my favs!
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John Light
Pristine Pythons
ristinePythons@Hotmail.com" target="_blank">Contact Me

Is it the labyrinths that produced the all brown/black snake or was it cinnamon pastels?
Or did the cinnamon pastels just happen to be marked like labyrinths?
I am pretty new at this so you have to explain it in depth. LOL
Sorry I am used to panther chameleon morphs. Ball morphs are pretty new to me.
I do love them though but my favorite are the pieds which are a recessive gene. In my opinion there is just nothing like them no matter how expensive.
I would like to see a pastel pied produced.
Has anyone done that yet? I am sure it has been done if it is possible. They would be smart to keep it under wraps till they had enough breeder females to provide for the demand.

simple:
Gulf coast had two females they raised up and bred to normal males I believe.
They produced babies similar to the mothers......and then called them labyrinth ball pythons which have NOTHING at all to do or have in common with what you percieve as a labyrinth ball python. The pic you posted is a "labyrinth" ball python that shouldnt be named because it is not proven.
Gulf Coast proved their snakes and called them labyrinth bal pythons. The first generation had alot of abberancies in comparison with the more known cinnamon lines of today.
The babies produced now stil are a little out of whack.
They proved a snake out to be genetic and called it labyrinth.
Remember it has nothing to do with what yo are used to seeing.
Gulf Coast rarely if ever goes on the internet to see what everyone else has, he is always more pre occupied with what he has and he doesnt necesarily keep up with the names of new things.
He called them labyrinths when he proved them, thus in essence all other "labyrinths" are not.
Since his are genetic, and he named them so. Since he proved them, he can name them whatever he wants, just up to the public to accept it.
They are remarkably similar to black pastels aka cinnamon pastels.......
and I would not be surprised if they were compatible.
Now the question is since he was FIRST and not graziani(to my knowledge) then wwhat do we really call them? do we honor grazianis name? or do we honor gulf coasts name?
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"Quality isn't Quality without customer service so I guess I sell quality"

I have touched on this a coulpe of times due to mislabeling my "labyrinth" as a Halloween. I was corrected numerous times. Sorry Cutting Edge Herp. Halloween BP were produced by Cutting Edge Herps and have not been sold to anyone yet. These are in some relation, think poss. het to the JET BLACK ball. What is that? Thats not a Cinnamon, right? And it looks awesome. Its pitch black from what it looks like in the pic on their site. Not like that brownish black that the Cinnamons produce. I never heard anything else about it. I saw it on there about a year ago and it hasn't been updated. Take a look.
http://cuttingedgeherp.com/pythons/item.nhtml?profile=pythons&UID=103

-Bill Cherep

doesn't even have a labby pattern. How would the name labby even pop into his head? lol some ball morph names I just don't get!
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John Light
Pristine Pythons
ristinePythons@Hotmail.com" target="_blank">Contact Me

Gulf Coast produced babies intheir first breeding many years ago. They got the original animals, two girls, from Noah.
They bred them to normal males and got more that look like the mothers.
They called them labyrinth balls.......and has proven his line as such.......it very well may be a cinnamon pastel or black pastel, but they proved them out before graziani did, and named them labyrinth balls....so technically if everyone played by the "rules" all cinnamon pastels should be called labyrinth balls after gulf coast FIRST proved them a while back.
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"Quality isn't Quality without customer service so I guess I sell quality"

Does anyone have belly pictures of the Cinnamon/labrinth balls? How close are they to each other? Thanks David