Reptile & Amphibian Forums

well after reading the debate i pulled some strings...i work with a gal who is going to be an anthropologist, we go to Ohio State University, i brought this subject up and she was very interested and said she is going to ask the department head if she can do some reasearch into this guys claims...so maybe we will have some answers...anyway just thought i would let you all know

Cool. That will be very intresting. But don't give this guy free research. Regardless of what his product turns out to be, I can show you where he publicly claims that he has not done research. Thats my big issue with him. Its not about the worms, its about the business practices.
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well, if she wants to do it bc sheloves bugs (bc she does) and finds this interesting then im not going to stop her...plus maybe if we get real info then we can truely expose this dude for the poser he is...

I don't care if you share the results with the owner of minimealworms, personally I kind of agree with Jen on that one, he should have done his own research before marketing them. I would appreciate it if you shared your findings with me though, I'm sure Robert would be interested also.

Sean
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Heart Mountain Herps

oh i was not goinjg to like Email him them or anything...lol...and of course ill tell you, and lots of others specially if it turns out bogus like i figure it is...

I'd like to know as well. I"ve been using them with great success on my "petite" female. (11.25" at 6 months, put on almost 3/4" in 1.5 weeks since starting the worms.)

Definatley interested!!! That is GREAT!!! can't wait to see the results!!! Tell her to hurry up!!! LOL That's also realy good growth rate on Celestes Lola too..... I hope the nutriion values are good cause it sure does seem that everyone is having really good growth spurts when using these guys!!!

Later,
Robert
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A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds,
adored by little statesmen, philosophers and divines.
Ralph Emerson

But all baby dragons grow around 1.5 inches a week in the first few weeks....thats normal growth..at least in my clutches.

I expect the minis will come out to be just like the standard size, maybe a slight differences, but generally the same.

But I am intrested. I still would NEVER give this guy business even if they turned out to be manna from above, hehe.
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I understand you are on the "antiminimealwormguy" train Jen....LOL But I am talking about dragons who were having trouble' growing and seemed to have no appetite taking growth spurts and having excellant feeding response to the mini's.... I may not agree with his lack of proper study but if he was seeing the same results that I and a few others are they would definately be justifeid claims and who doesn't want what is best for their beardie?

I will definately give him my buisness if it is in my beardies best interest no matter if he claims that minis will crap gold flakes that add to a pound a day..... Sometimes you have to look over the hype to the greener grass that is past it....... Just test it and make sure it's not spray painted...LOL

.Later,
Robert
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A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds,
adored by little statesmen, philosophers and divines.
Ralph Emerson

But you can not tell anything from looking at feeding response from dragons or even growth. That is certainly not backing up his claims. It is not any indication of the worms being nutritionally balanced for the dragon.
A young child will grow very fast and be quite well padded if raised on McDonalds. He will be active and look very healthy, if not a little overweight, in his adolescent years. Does this mean that it is ok to raise children on McDonalds. Because we know what is in McDs food, of course NOT. It would be devastating to the child later in life to have been raised with that kind of foundation. But the effects wouldn't really show until later in life. And a doctor that did not know the childs upbinging would have a lot of trouble understanding the cause of the problems because he is currently on a proper diet and exercising. But the childs foundation would have been horrible.

Mealworms, ALL TYPES, are VERY HIGH in Phosphorus. Feeding a young dragon a diet of mealworms will cause calcium problems. Crickets can be gutloaded to contain higher calcium levels, but this does not works as well for mealworms. You can almost balance the Ca in crickets by gutloading and tip it towards Ca by dusting. With mealworms you always have a negative. This is very hard on growing bones. Mealworms are very high in fat. Mealworms are not considered nutritious and absolutly recommend against for sick or slow growing animals by every reputable herp vet I know. The point is not to "get them eating by any means necessary and regardless of the costs". The point is to get picky eaters and slow growers onto a healthy diet. Mealworms are not nutritious. I do not know if minies are different then mealworms, but I would be suprised. But again, mealworms are not nutritious. They are ok as a PART of the diet, but a very small part. Whats best for your dragons is certainly not eating large amounts of an insect nutritionally similar to a mealworm. See thats where I have the problem with him...he is lying. I do not doubt that the feeding response part is true. I do not doubt that baby dragons can grow and get fat on mealworms. I have doubts that his product is any better then mealies, which is to say not good.

Why not feeder roaches? These have just as strong of a feeding response from the picky dragons and are a much more nutritional insect. Feeder roaches can be a staple in the diet and give babies a great start in life. I have yet to see a picky dragon not go for roach nymphs. And its GOOD for them.
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Well, I had no idea that roach nymphs created a strong feeding response....... That would be a much better way to go than a mealworm with low nutritional value and high fat and high phospherous.... But we don't know do we? that's why I am happy to see that the results will soon be available and we caN see if he spray painted the grass or if it's really green....LOL........

If you wqeren't so caught up in slamming this guy you would have seen in my posts that these minis create a feeding response so strong that the lizards begin to eat anything that moves....... and if yuou throw crix in the mix they eat them up as well..... at least in my experience..... Sooo.... that woulkd increase the calcium intake to eleviate the possibility of MBD due to lack of calcium in the diet or supps......... I'm not saying it's mana from heaven or a good staple for them as I know the nutritional value of mealies.. but if it creates a feeding response that strong they can be used to your advantage when dealing with a picky eater or slow grower.... I'm not trying to argue a case for this guy only trying to let everyone see the pluses to his product.... Who knows, maybe Sean will sart a huge colonmy and start selling them and we won't have to use this guy at all.... Till then there is an asvenue for peplpe with these type lizards to explore when all other options are utilized and they have reached a dead end....... That's ALL I'm trying to get across........

BTW.... I love that high contrast pattern holdback you posted.... WOW..... realy gorgeous!!!!

Later,
Robert
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A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds,
adored by little statesmen, philosophers and divines.
Ralph Emerson

I have NOI interestin the minimealworm debate. But I was curious if you had tried small silkies on these draogns that weren't eating as well or growing as fast. I wonder why they would feec nay better on mealies than they woould on small silkies. They lok alomost identical and we know the nitriional content of silkies. My little girl is eating them like they are going out of style!! LOL Of course, she has never had a problem eating according to the breeder and certainly has not had a problem eating since I got her.
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Stacey

Hey, Satecey!!

Yes I tried the small silkies and she would eat them better than crix but she just wouldn't eat enough of them to get her growing like she should be....... I tried the minis and her feeding response was UNBELIEVABLE....... Shed wiould even eat all the crix I threw in she would hit such a feeding frenzy!!!!! They were really helping her... She grew an inch in the week I had her on them adn hadn't grown but like MAYBE 1/2" in the 6-8 weeks I HAD HER PREVIOUSLY....... I think that says alot right there! I would have tried raoches if someone would advertise like that guy did! It would even be a PROVEN statement about the raoches but I have NEVER heard anyone even the breeders who use thwem say that roach nymphs will create a feeding response such as this......... Guess I'll have to try them out to see.......

Later,

Robert
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A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds,
adored by little statesmen, philosophers and divines.
Ralph Emerson

Hey Jen,

I've got about 1000 beetles from them running around so if it turns out that they're good and I get them to breed I'll send you a starter group so you don't have to give the guy your money lol.

Sean
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Heart Mountain Herps

ROFL.... what a generous offer Sean....LOL I don't know if it's for our benefit or hers? LOL..... just kidding Jen.... you know we love you!!!

Laters,
Robert
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A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds,
adored by little statesmen, philosophers and divines.
Ralph Emerson

lol, well the girl didnt see the head of the insectology department yet, but she did go to the site and said she was very interested so who knows, im not guaranteeing that she will do the research or anything, bc i think that is what you guys thought, but she said she was interested in it as an arthropologist and would see what strings she could pull for me bc she loves my little guy so much

oh and while we are on the subject of feeders, what do you guys gutload with? just wondering as right now im just using potatoes and sometimes fish flakes when i dont have potatoes...will that work? or do i need something else?

I gutload with the same stuff I use for their regular food for most of the bugs. It's a mix of non hormone chicken laying mash (run through a coffee grinder), a 13 grain oatmeal, powdered milk, wheatbran, fish flake, a bit of brewers yeast (not much), and whatever else I have lying around at the moment lol. I usually mix up a big batch and store it in coffee cans until I use it.

Sean
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Heart Mountain Herps