Reptile & Amphibian Forums

This question is for the benefit of all less knowledgable on the forum. I've read through the forums and there is an extreme mixed opinion on fish as a staple diet. Is fish a good staple diet, and what should be done to the fish?

I'm not the expert you should probably hear from EdK on this one. I don't feed fish (Mainly beceause it's uneconomical for me) but they can be fed as a staple diet. What kind of fish I am unsure of, but I think mollies were good but not goldfish. But, don't take my word on the fish that are safe to eat, they may be wrong.
Hope it helped at least some
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CokeOfMan

One of the things you see on these forums are a lot of opinions backed up with anecdotal evidence but with little or no citations or fact to support the opinion. Anecdotal evidence is fine when taken in context but it shouldn't be used as the sole input to make a decision. This includes the diets fed the frogs on the list and particuarly the information passed around about pinks and fish.
On the topic of fish, livebearers, cold water, brackish and marine fish are all suitable items to be fed to the frogs (if you search the forums you can see where I have posted the citations). The original citation involved using fish to grow bulfrogs (Rana catesbiana) to market size and involved several different diets as well as a control diet. The two diets that produced the best growth and did not have developmental problems were the diets using fish Avoid goldfish as they are high in unsaturated fats.
There is a lot of commentary on disease, parasite transmission etc making fish too risky but the earthworms (as they are collected from the wild) can also carry many parasites as can commercially cultured insects such as crickets, and cockroaches as it is impossible to totally prevent contamination of the cultures by extraneous insects such as flies, beetles, roaches, mites and spiders all of which can transmit a parasite into the colony.
If you want to minimize the risk of parasite infection then all food items should be frozen for a minimum of two weeks before feeding. (However in relation to fish, this means you have to supplement with thiamine to prevent thiamine deficiencies). A better method to deal with the parasite concern is to simply get periodic fecal checks on the frogs and monitor the parasite levels in the frogs.

Personally I do not like feeding Ceratophrys crickets when they are small as I have had several animals die from food impactions and perforations of the stomach due to leg spines caused by the crickets (confirmed on necropsy).

If you have any other questions please let me know.

Ed

Wow that answers my question. I've been feeding the rosy red minnows (i assume they fall under coldwater fish). About the impaction thing, as I said in a post earlier my little pacman has a lump about the size of a pencil eraser poking out of his side. I think it's a cricket head. Could this be a problem? Also, in the study were any of the feeders supplemented at all or can i just feed them straight fish?

The fish were not supplemented in the study but you may want to add some D3/calcium to the end of the fish as it will help prevent "MBD".

I did not see any lumps in the frogs before they died, the discovery of the cause was postmortum.

Ed

I'll give you my opinion. I like to stay away from feeding fish, because I see how overcrowded the feeder fish are at the pet stores I go to. I know that higher concentrations of fish, leads to higher ammonia levels in their tank, which is detrimental to the fish. And perhaps the high ammonia content could be transferred to the frog eating it?
I really do not know the specifice of fish biology and nutritional content. But the diet I use for my frog now is cheap and does not include fish, and I see no reason to change it.
I will never claim to be an expert on these frogs. I can only tell you what has worked for me in the five years I have kept these frogs. I feed a staple diet of nightcrawlers. I had one horned frog in the beginning, that ate mostly mice, and that frog died from it; a diet of mice is too fatty, and it eld to his eyes getting a lipid buildup, and him going blind and eventually bloating and dying. So mice are taboo; I used to feed them sporadically but now I do not even use them for my horned frog.
My present horned frog is over four years old, and is fed a diet of nightcrawlers and a few huge crickets once in awhile, dusted with reptivite for calcium. This diet produces stellar results with my frog, and I would highly recommend it, and see no reason to augment or change it in any way.

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2.1 Ball pythons
1.0 Boa Constrictor Imperator
0.1 albino Cranwell's horned frog
1.0 bearded dragon
1.0 Tiger salamander
1.1 breeding Clawed frogs
1.0 black kittycat
3.1 Oscar cichlids
0.1 Paint horse mare

snip "I had one horned frog in the beginning, that ate mostly mice, and that frog died from it; a diet of mice is too fatty, and it eld to his eyes getting a lipid buildup, and him going blind and eventually bloating and dying."

How do you know the diet was the cause of death? Was a necropsy performed?
Bloat in amphibians is not usually linked to diet but to bacterial infections.

If the levels of ammonia in the feeder tank were high enough to increase the levels in the tissues of the fish the fish will die. That said, ammonia levels automatically increase in tissues after death (unless frozen) due to decomposition.

Ed

Is there any way to feed fish that has died from too hig ammonia levels then? If frozen I asume that the ammonia already in the tissue is not affected?
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CokeOfMan

Ive been feeding mine 1 pinkie a week, ive had him for about 3 weeks. He is still a baby but there is something wrong with him. He will not eat crickets. He will eat worms but most of the worms on the market are to big for him. i fed him a super worm and he had a really bad pointy bulge on his side witch i didnt think was good and i should try it when he is older. and the problem with meal worms is they have to much shell rather then meat. What should i do?????

i feed my albino cranwells fish, but i dont feed gold fish, i have been useing blue eyed cichlids that im getting rid of and my oscar has never aten a live fish in his life and he would even give chase, but the frog loves them, his maine diet is earth worms, king worms, crickets,meal worms, with some wax worms once in a while and the odd mouse.

but the problem is with mine is that he wont eat crix and he is stil a baby. so things like earth worms and stuff are to big. and i could by some ros red minnow fish but how much should i feed him.

yeah my older pacman refuses to eat fish. I really dont think you should be feeding pinkies if the frog isn't even big enough to eat super worms but i could be wrong. I was turned off by superworms do to their hard looking shells. If he won't eat crix, I'd definately suggest fish, EDK has informed me it's healthy. So just feed him the rosy red minnows i guess (that's what I feed) I give him about 3-4 tiny ones every other day. In my experience they wont eat it if they don't need it, but i guess as a guidline, just feed him 3 or 4 every other day or 1-2 every day. If the temp is low (like it is now) feed him less. Niether of my frogs eat when they don't have to (which is not often) so that's what I'd do.

corylizardman, you could cut the earthworms up into smaller pieces.

sword, super worms shell is softer then meal worms and easier too digest.

Actually the shell of a superworm isn't much softer there is just less of it when compared to the amount of stuff it contains. The total ratio of calcium is less in the larger Zoophobas than in a regular mealworm.

Ed

you know what, come to think of it, what is a good age to feed pinkies, and how exactly do you do it? They don't move overmuch, and it seems that using forceps may crush them. Anyone? Specific to my situation, my pacman won't eat outside his water dish, so I can' tjus tput it in front of him.