Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I keep a variety of herps...and some are frogs.
3 Pac Man, and 2 Pixie frogs.
My question is this. They are all in 5 gal tanks...and all about 4 inches from snout to butt.
While healthy in every way, and very good eaters, my Pac Man frogs seem to have stopped growing.
My Pixie frogs continue to grow.
My question is this...Can their growth be retarded by keeping them in 5 gal tanks? I know when I move hatchling turtles to bigger tanks, growth is almost immediate.When kept in smaller quarters with other hatchlings, long term, growth is negligible.
Are Pac Man frogs the same?
If I move these frogs to 10 gal tanks, will they grow to their enviornment? Their initial growth was very rapid.
I have seen Pac Man Frogs much bigger than the ones I own, but I've no idea of the husbandry used to get them to that size.
About softball size.

I don't have any scientific backing for this, but my guess is the size shouldn't affect the growth. I just know a lot of pet stores that keep their pacmen in the tiniest of critter keepers and they still just keep growing. Pacmen don't seem to move very much so they don't understand the limits of their enviroment like a turtle might when he runs into the walls (?) But i definately could be wrong. This is a good question, I keep my little one in a 2.5 gal and my bigger one in a 5 gal. They are both young yet, but I'd be interested to know that. The store owner also told me that pacmen are more comfortable in a more enclosed space but that could've been BS.

That's just bs, they are active at night, mainly looking for a new spot to burrow into. They are more comfortable when they are burrowed into the ground though. They will use all the space you give them, you just may not see it used.
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http://joshmilliken.tripod.com/

The size of the enclosure doesn't stunt the growth (with turtles the increase in space decreases competition by spacing the animals out more which increases growth) the amount of usuable nutrition during active growth determines the adult size. Most herps grow fairly quickly until they become sexually mature at which point growth slows.

Ed

You should have all the pac-mans in 10 gallon tanks anyways, a 5 gallon is much too small for an adult. They may or may not be done growing, once htey get large their growth slows way down to almost unnoticible rates. And your large african bullfrogs should be in 20 gallon longs at the minimum.
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http://joshmilliken.tripod.com/

Why would I put a sub-adult PacMan in such a large tank?
Especially when you say they grow so slowly, I wont even notice?
And my Africans still fit rather nicely in their fives.
I have many many extra 10's and 20's around, so I can just move them into new, and larger enclosures.
I really see no scientific, or husbandry related basis for your answer.
EdK...keep on posting!

A 10 or 20 gallon is not that large. Think of it this way, would you rather be confined to a 5'x 5' room for the rest of your life and live in your own filth or live in a 10' x 10' room and be able to get away from your messes, at at least have a little bit of room to move around, and regardless of how often you clean the frog is still exposed to suboptimal conditions because the cage is so small, you can't even give it a proper temperature gradient so if it wants to cool down it can.
It our responsibility as the owners of these animals to provide them with the best possible care we can, and if that means getting them a 10 gallon tank verses a 5 gallon tank then that's what you should do, neither of those tanks are very big to begin with.
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http://joshmilliken.tripod.com/

Again...I have lots of extra tanks around. An while not practical for most owners, I can move them into new enclosures as they grow.
As far as temp gradient. My herp room is kept at 80*. With a humidity level of 50-60%...the air is moved by a fan so I just dont have stagnant warm moist air.
This setup has worked for me with frogs for about 5 years.
Frogs not in this room, have been warmed with heat pads, or small heat lamps.
It is time though to move my African to a 10 gal...he can just about jump out of the 5!

With most amphibians (there are always exceptions, example Bufo baxteri bask to raise body temperatures) theremal gradients may not be necessary as this typically applies only to animal that bask to raise their body temperatures. With the couple of exceptions I have not seen any literature discussing basking behavior in amphibians.
This does not mean that a frog may not take advantage of a thermal gradient, it just doesn't appear to be necessary.

In smaller enclosures, there is an increased risk of toxicity due to waste products.

Ed

What do you feed them to get them as big as possible, considering you start very young? The store guy was like, "feed him lots of fish!" but he also told me not to move him out of his 4" x 8" critter keeper and that pacman frogs like a cold environment, so he's not the most reliable guy out there...

I feed 'em whatever they'll eat. I do like variety though.
I feed silkworms, hornworms, fish...all kinds...fuzzies, hoppers. Rat pups, nightcrawlers, superworms.Shrimp.
All dusted with Nekton R, and Miner-all.
Odd thing is, one Pacman wont eat dusted food. He actually spits it out. Cant say I blame him, I dont want dusty food either.
The reason the store attendant told you not to take him out was...he was afraid to!
I bought my first African about 200 miles away. I was on vacation, and on the way home, I made a side trip to one of the larger pet stores around. I was gonna buy one at a show, but, I figured I'd pay lots more now, and have one.
With all that bouncing around coming home, the forg ate the instant I got home. I dumped some crickets in, and he was an eating machine.This one actually scares me...lol
I feed em all they want...I just make sure it is quality, varied, and dusted.