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Hi,

How much time should I quarantine young python molurus bivitattus & boa constrictor to definitely rule out the presence of Inclusion Body Disease?

Thank you.

>>Hi,
>>
>>How much time should I quarantine young python molurus bivitattus & boa constrictor to definitely rule out the presence of Inclusion Body Disease?
>>
>>Thank you.
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We do not inherit the Earth from our ancestors; we borrow it from our children. Ralph Waldo Emerson

>>>>Hi,
>>>>
>>>>How much time should I quarantine young python molurus bivitattus & boa constrictor to definitely rule out the presence of Inclusion Body Disease?
>>>>
>>>>Thank you.
>>-----
>>We do not inherit the Earth from our ancestors; we borrow it from our children. Ralph Waldo Emerson
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We do not inherit the Earth from our ancestors; we borrow it from our children. Ralph Waldo Emerson

>>>>>>Hi,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>How much time should I quarantine young python molurus bivitattus & boa constrictor to definitely rule out the presence of Inclusion Body Disease?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Thank you.
>>>>-----
In order to "definitely" rule out IBD, quarantine should be for 1 year. 6 months is a minumium quarantine period in order to be resonably safe.
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We do not inherit the Earth from our ancestors; we borrow it from our children. Ralph Waldo Emerson

I was wondering what was going on oldherper

IBD generally affects pythons much faster and the suggested quarantine times are lots.
Boa's on the other hand can be asymptomatic carriers for an unknown length of time and thus can never be declared IBD negative. Actually, there is no test for IBD. WHy? Because it's cause has not been identified yet. Thus the actual disease may or may not exist. Inclusion bodies are found in snakes for many reasons and matching the symptoms to post mortem results and lumping similar cases together defines IBD in my opinion. Just the result of a long and exhaustive case study on a possibly exposed youngster that died from encephalopathy of unknown etiology. Inclusions were found in several tissues, but no virus' were found withen using EM.

>>I was wondering what was going on oldherper
>>
>>IBD generally affects pythons much faster and the suggested quarantine times are lots.
>>Boa's on the other hand can be asymptomatic carriers for an unknown length of time and thus can never be declared IBD negative. Actually, there is no test for IBD. WHy? Because it's cause has not been identified yet. Thus the actual disease may or may not exist. Inclusion bodies are found in snakes for many reasons and matching the symptoms to post mortem results and lumping similar cases together defines IBD in my opinion. Just the result of a long and exhaustive case study on a possibly exposed youngster that died from encephalopathy of unknown etiology. Inclusions were found in several tissues, but no virus' were found withen using EM.

Actually, in the ongoing study at The University of Florida, retrovirus has been isolated from the tissue of IBD infected Boids. I have heard rumors (but have not substantiated them) that an serologic assay has been developed. There has been a definitive post-mortem test available for some time. Tissue samples can be sent to The University of Florida College of Veterinary Medicine for diagnosis.

I agree that IBD is probably over-diagnosed. As you pointed out, Cytoplasmic Inclusion Bodies can be present from several different causes. However, I think that by symptom profile and the observation of Inclusion Bodies in smears made from biopsied tissue by light microscope examination using H&E staining, one could make a pretty certain diagnosis. The real problem is that the absence of Inclusion Bodies does not necessarily mean that the animal is not infected.
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We do not inherit the Earth from our ancestors; we borrow it from our children. Ralph Waldo Emerson

Exactly!

As for my information, it may be a year or so old as I wasn't able to contact the U of Fl directly. I've discussed this with several reference herp vets (VIN)and they were still under the impression that it's kinda been narrowed down to a few possible culprits, being retroviruses but have yet to find the actual link that says yes, this is the etiology of IBD. Without an actual pathogen to focus on, a 100% diagnoses would be difficult to prove even though I agree the H&E staining and EM narrows it down pretty good.

I was also under the impression that the IBD research at the U was pretty much non-exsistant at present due to lack of funding and efforts being directed towards more high profile diseases. If I"m wrong, please fill me in

I don't know for sure what the current status of the research is. Last I heard there was a visiting faculty member from another school there that was working with the isolates. I know that much of the funding came from the Reptile Shows in Florida. I would think that funding would continue, but you can never be sure. Research funding is a funny thing...here today, gone tomorrow. I'm sure you could email Dr. Jacobson and find out for sure.
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We do not inherit the Earth from our ancestors; we borrow it from our children. Ralph Waldo Emerson

An FYI: I had a boa with some of the IBD symptoms (Oldherper, I contacted you about this some time ago) and we did research on testing. My vet talked to Dr Jacobson and said the only way test in a living animal is by taking biopsies of the liver and the tonsils (snakes have tonsils??!!). We elected against surgery and the snake wound up dying shortly after of a brain infection (scant growth of Stenotrophomonas maltophilia). It is supposed to be sensitive to enrofloxacin, but appparently it had no effect on this infection at 10mg/kg.
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"I know the human being and fish can coexist peacefully."
Governor George W. Bush, Jr.

"Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us."
Calvin and Hobbes (Scientific Progress Goes 'Boink', 1991)

>>An FYI: I had a boa with some of the IBD symptoms (Oldherper, I contacted you about this some time ago) and we did research on testing. My vet talked to Dr Jacobson and said the only way test in a living animal is by taking biopsies of the liver and the tonsils (snakes have tonsils??!!). We elected against surgery and the snake wound up dying shortly after of a brain infection (scant growth of Stenotrophomonas maltophilia). It is supposed to be sensitive to enrofloxacin, but appparently it had no effect on this infection at 10mg/kg.
>>-----
>>"I know the human being and fish can coexist peacefully."
>>Governor George W. Bush, Jr.
>>
>>"Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us."
>>Calvin and Hobbes (Scientific Progress Goes 'Boink', 1991)

I'm sorry to hear that the Boa died. Man, that's an unusual ailment for a snake.

I guess the rumors I heard of a new Serologic Assay were incorrect. So, biopsy is still the only way to test.....
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We do not inherit the Earth from our ancestors; we borrow it from our children. Ralph Waldo Emerson

I had been wanting to report to you my findings, since you did help me out. This just reminded me and I happen to have the culture report nearby.
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"I know the human being and fish can coexist peacefully."
Governor George W. Bush, Jr.

"Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us."
Calvin and Hobbes (Scientific Progress Goes 'Boink', 1991)

I keep notes on this sort of thing. This is the first I've heard of S. maltophilia being implicated in an infection of this sort in a snake. Very good information! Thanks.

Sorry for your loss.
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We do not inherit the Earth from our ancestors; we borrow it from our children. Ralph Waldo Emerson

I wanted to comment on your boa with the brain infection. I received a Central American Boa from Strictly Reptiles that showed symptoms of IBD shortly after I received her. Took her into the vet and we decided to put her on oral Baytril until we decided where to send the blood tests. 2 weeks later, her symptoms cleared with the treatment (continued treatment a full month). Evidently she had a bacterial infection that caused the IBD symptoms (star gazing and having difficulty righting herself after being flipped on her back). Throughout the whole ordeal she never missed a feeding and was testy as ever. It's interesting to hear another story similiar...

>>I wanted to comment on your boa with the brain infection. I received a Central American Boa from Strictly Reptiles that showed symptoms of IBD shortly after I received her. Took her into the vet and we decided to put her on oral Baytril until we decided where to send the blood tests. 2 weeks later, her symptoms cleared with the treatment (continued treatment a full month). Evidently she had a bacterial infection that caused the IBD symptoms (star gazing and having difficulty righting herself after being flipped on her back). Throughout the whole ordeal she never missed a feeding and was testy as ever. It's interesting to hear another story similiar...

An important point. There are a number of things that can cause these symptoms, IBD being only one of them. I think that IBD may be one of the over-diagnosed diseases, along with Cryptosporidiosis.
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We do not inherit the Earth from our ancestors; we borrow it from our children. Ralph Waldo Emerson