This is a side by side of a Dumerils I produced next to a normal I bought this last season. She was one of the two I kept back from that litter... but I had sold this one! Fortunately, I just got her back from the guy in hopes that the trait is genetic... she is the sister of Hera. Originally I had kept her just for the cool head peace(the Bear) but she's turned out every bit as light as Hera.. maybe more.
So, Dumerils lovers.. what do you think? I wouldn't go so far to call them hypo but its something?
Thanks-
Matt Schubarth
Pet Nebula
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One of the lightest Dumerils I've seen....
Biophiliacs
Dec 18, 2004 02:18 PM
Replies (16)
Biophiliacs
Dec 18, 2004 02:21 PM
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Biophiliacs
Dec 18, 2004 02:23 PM
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Biophiliacs
Dec 18, 2004 02:26 PM
She's quite light for a mature female. My theory is that the trait is co-dom, maybe similar to the pastel gene in some respects.
JohnLokken
Dec 18, 2004 04:31 PM
>>She's quite light for a mature female. My theory is that the trait is co-dom, maybe similar to the pastel gene in some respects.
>>
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"To be the best..........You must lose your mind."
thecaiman
Dec 20, 2004 08:10 AM
so I am curious to hear where the basis of your theory comes from?
>>She's quite light for a mature female. My theory is that the trait is co-dom, maybe similar to the pastel gene in some respects.
>>
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Jason & Danica
So am I still waiting for this world to stop hating/Can't find a good reason, can't find hope to believe in/...You can't change the state of the nation we just need/ some motivation...So am I still waiting for this world to stop hating(Sum41 Still Waiting)
Biophiliacs
Dec 20, 2004 04:36 PM
maybe there were more and due to me being a little green with Dumerils at the time, I may not have recognized others that were expressing this lighter coloration. Right now, its just a theory.. I'm not saying anything difinitive about the transmition. Not until I get offspring from these two sub-adults. Probably can't tell on the mother, the sun has washed her out a bit, but she has an overall lighter pigment and her medallions have a much more yellow center than the standard Dumerils. If you can't see the color difference in these sub-adults, you're obviously letting personal feelings get in the way of a judgement call. That's too bad.
When I said it was similar to the BCI pastels, I am speaking with respect to the removal of a layer of color. Particularly, the top layer of black. However, the background layer remains somewhat grey on all of my females expressing the formentioned trait. I would almost go so far to say that this is what your so-called hypo has going for them but but vice-versa. Instead of having the top coat removed, your hypos seem to have the background(base) black removed, while maintaining the top coat.
I know that you and I have our differences caused mostly by myself, but I would rather we just get over it and move on. I see that you are getting out of breeding Dumerils altogether, selling out of all your stock including the "hypo" you bought from Kevin Hanley. I wish you the best of luck in your new project, mouse breeding, and all of you other endevors.
Take Care Jason-
Matt Schubarth
Pet Nebula
2100 Stephens #116
Missoula, Montana 59801
406 541 9929
thecaiman
Dec 21, 2004 12:03 AM
just as nice as those and nicer. The animals in the pics are just nice looking normal Dumerils and nothing more, wishful thinking. Pastel boas are not a trait they are the result of line breeding. Nice ones depending on how you look at it dumerils can be as well, you bred nice looking adult ods are you will get nice offspring. Now personally I think everything skips generations I think you need to look back to the grandparents. Ive read studies about humans and how things skip generations. Women that give birth to twins is one thing I rember they had brought up and in alot of cases there parents were twins. theres been cancer studies were they believe your more at ods if your grandparents had it compared to your parents having it. Nothing hard core but IMO makes sense. Same sense I beileve applies here.
Now the one thing I think you lack in all this is an understanding of there home range. It varies from some of the harshest desert in the world to lush rainforest. Ive seen plenty of pics coming out of the differant ranges and one thing I can tell ya is they do not look anything alike from the differant regions. Much like the various GTP's coming from differant islands. Same species are the color variatons morphs? No they have just adapted to the differant enviroments. Many of our own native colobrids are they same. What you have there are ligther colored dumerils nothing special. Do as many shows a year as I do and youll see that they are really not that uncommon. The animal in the pic below IMO smokes the other ones, do you see any trait I should be breeding for? His saddles in person are lighter then in the pic. With 15 clutches under his belt I can tell ya there is nothing codom there. When bred to nicer females he produces nicer offspring when bred to ugly females youll get one or two nice babies and the rest will look like they fell out of the ugly tree and hit every branch on their way down. Ive had plenty of other animals the same. The male in the pic below is currently locked up with a female that looks just like the one in your pic but shes has has better defind patterns. Now when she throws those offspring that are going to be outstanding will there be anything genetic about it? NO, so to insnuate that its some kind of trait is just crazy. Anyway as much as I am sure youd like to see me go it wont be any time soon. Arancio and the hypo have been doing there thing for some time now and theres a few other things going on with the dumerils for next year and I wouldnt miss it for the world. Matt I got no prob with you but dont slam me when I have 2 animals here that are obvious to anyone not normal dumerils and claim their normal then turn around and insinuate the crazy stuff ya got posted in this thread over normal animals. Wishful thinking do some research on their home range and youll have a better understanding of their color variations, sizes etc.
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Jason & Danica
So am I still waiting for this world to stop hating/Can't find a good reason, can't find hope to believe in/...You can't change the state of the nation we just need/ some motivation...So am I still waiting for this world to stop hating(Sum41 Still Waiting)
Danica
Dec 21, 2004 06:02 AM
I hope I have talked enough sense into Jason about NOT selling Arancio and the hypo. I can see it now, as soon as he does, it will prove out. He has been working on this for years and years and I would hate to see someone else get the credit for all of his hard work. So wake up Jason!!! LOL
As far as your dum's, it is a super nice baby!!! But I have also seen alot of light colored dum's. We do have several here that are light colored and look nothing like the hypo. They look like what you describe, the top layer is gone or it looks like they have been bleached. That is an old picture that Jason posted, it's not a very good one. He looks like he's been bleached and still retains some of his pink. I am not sideing with Jason just because he lives with me, I am the first person to tell him when he's wrong. Just ask him...LOL. You did produce a very nice dums and it is hard to tell without seeing an animal in person. Pictures do no justice on some dumerils.
Just for example, this is the best picture of Arancio that has been taken, but it still doesn't do him justice. Anyone that's seen him can tell you that.
Peace man, and happy holidays to you and yours. And you know my post is not personal because I have no clue what happened between you and Jason, don't really care to know either.
Danni 
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Danni
cnb2
Dec 21, 2004 10:40 AM
I don't know who has hypos or not. I just love Dumerils. I have to say Arancio is the best looking dums I've seen and wish i could see him in person. Anyway good luck to you and Jason and I hope he proves him out. I'm glad to hear he has not given up yet.
Chuck
Biophiliacs
Dec 22, 2004 01:07 PM
Jason you said that the two females(sub-adults) could be a region specific coloration, I would admit that is a possibility. But the Hogg Island Boa is a region specific type of hypo so it really isn't an arguement for or against this genetic trait. You said you have lots of Dumerils that are better than the ones I've posted. Could you post a side-by-side, like I did... a normal next to a lighter colored specimen. That way I can get a frame of reference as to what you are speaking of.
Thanks again-
Matt Schubarth
PS- I only mentioned that you were getting out of Dumerils since it was stated explictly on your dumerils.com website. Sorry abount the confusion.
thecaiman
Dec 22, 2004 10:21 PM
if I dont have any on file it will have to wait till spring,
I said the animals were better IMO so dont take that the wrong way, I get people walking up at shows all the time that will take an animal I think isnt all that and they fall isntantly in love with it and pick it over animals I think totally smoke it, bueaty is in the eye of the beholder. in any event it wasnt an insult I was just making a point about the light colored dumerils, there not uncommon, last year I think I did close to 50 shows, if I remeber your in CO? so you get out to maybe 3 or 4 shows a year? I see alot more then you do, read some about there ranges their southern extention is desert while the northern is rain forest, it doesnt take much to figure out the darker ones would stick out like a sore thumb in the desert, I know a few people who have been there and seen it to, and their not uncommon by any means in the wild, their only threat is man, their populations are not in as bad of shape as they are made out to be. anyway the male in the pic below is probally 80% white his patterns just jump out at ya and thats what I love about him
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Jason & Danica
So am I still waiting for this world to stop hating/Can't find a good reason, can't find hope to believe in/...You can't change the state of the nation we just need/ some motivation...So am I still waiting for this world to stop hating(Sum41 Still Waiting)
cnb2
Dec 18, 2004 07:32 PM
Matt, nice looking Dums. I don't know if the light one is a hypo or not, but she sure is light. I saw one simular at a reptile show this past summer. He was very light he stood out compared to his siblings. Looking back I should have bought him but he did not look like he had grown much. He was a year old and was the size of of a Dums a few months old.
I will be pleased to see the offspring she produces. I hope you will post a pic of her litter. Good luck with her.
Chuck
fatboyreptiles
Dec 21, 2004 05:00 PM
I do think they look very nice and light and given the chance to prove them out I think it would be a bonus for dumerils lovers everywhere....yes it is just a theory now but thats where all things start out as .Jason you got some awesome dumerils also .I hope all have a great holiday and best wishes to you all....
Mike in Montana
Chris Olson
Dec 19, 2004 07:04 AM
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www.chrisolsonreptiles.com
Biophiliacs
Dec 19, 2004 02:24 PM
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thecaiman
Dec 20, 2004 08:06 AM
>>This is a side by side of a Dumerils I produced next to a normal I bought this last season. She was one of the two I kept back from that litter... but I had sold this one! Fortunately, I just got her back from the guy in hopes that the trait is genetic... she is the sister of Hera. Originally I had kept her just for the cool head peace(the Bear) but she's turned out every bit as light as Hera.. maybe more.
>>So, Dumerils lovers.. what do you think? I wouldn't go so far to call them hypo but its something?
>>Thanks-
>>Matt Schubarth
>>Pet Nebula
>>
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Jason & Danica
So am I still waiting for this world to stop hating/Can't find a good reason, can't find hope to believe in/...You can't change the state of the nation we just need/ some motivation...So am I still waiting for this world to stop hating(Sum41 Still Waiting)
