Reptile & Amphibian Forums

After posting our find of the endangered Eastern Massasauga rattlers and thinking i might share the spot with a few known herpers on this forum, i was reprimanded somewhat for even the mention of allowing someone else to come and see these great animals in the wild.
you see i had not thought that there was a possibility that i might be opening the door for slob poachers, who might want to steal them for a profit or pet.
after the recent raid were E. Massasaugas were confiscated from poachers, i guess all of us should be carefull about sharing our finds!
I am so sorry to the few who responded to my note .
I will not be guiding anyone known or not to this area.
I will post some pics of them soon.
Chris

Hmph... maybe if our entire state weren't covered with cornfields and malls massasaguas wouldn't be endangered in the first place. So now they're trying to blame it on herpers.

-Bitter in Ohio

Historically, most of northern Ohio, from L. Erie all the way into Indiana, was covered with swamplands. I believe this was the source of the common name, "Black Snapper". There was once a melanistic form of the E. massasauga that came out of these swamps. Try and find one now.

Basically, I like to know about massasauga locations, so as to increase my chances of seeing them in the wild over my lifespan, to study their historical range, and to keep tabs on what's happening to their habitat. Trying to help protect their habitat is almost fruitless, however, as developers can get permits to destroy hundreds of acres almost at will.

Conservation-minded law officers think they're protecting the species when they go after collectors, but what's really making the animals rare is the loss of their habitat. Of course, with so few left we have to protect them the best that we can, but we'd do a much better job if we could keep new malls and such projects from going in on their habitat. Conservation officers can't stop that, so I just hope they understand what's really affecting these declines and not hate herpers for wanting to protect them the only ways they know how.

I don't mind black marketers getting in trouble though. I almost never show anyone my hotspots for finding them, in situ, but I did show a conservation officer a spot and four or five massas in a couple hours to try and get the location protected. He just said it showed that they weren't that rare. Now that spot has been developed for condos about eight yrs. later. Hey, but the species is protected, right?

PS: I still want to go hunting with you in s. IN, when and if I can make it down that way. There's plenty of coppers in s. IN. Do you know your state's regs on these herps?

Terry

It really angers me that the day after I call one of the local people active in the conservation of this species to offer him a ride to Chris's since he wanted to go to and I wanted to meet him Chris will no longer take me to see them.I have spent a lot of what little time I have in the field looking for them with no luck.A helping hand would have been nice.Years ago I worked for a pet store that was heavillt herp oriented.The owner proabbly did questionable things and one of the other herpers I met through this employment Mr.Conservationists feels is a bad man.That may well be but we learn some spots from those who have gone before us.One young lady who is doing a study on the massaguas for IDNR told me she learned of the area she is stuuding from the bad man.My collection is 100% legal.I have never collected in a preserve.I have photographed in them.Ihave never collected a endangered species.I haven't even seen any to photograph.I do not own a wild caught E.Hognose which when she lays her eggs would put me over the legal limit of four with a valid fishing license(dif.laws if have breeders permit).I have never collected a DeKays on stete land for my collection big nono(no breeders permit avaiable for this species).I know our states laws and follow them.
Mr. Conservationist made a commet eluding to all In species being Illigal to keep.This is not true.Mayby he should learn what all the laws are.He shouldn also remember tha the point of conservation of our natural resources is sothat they are around for all to enjoy and that they are there for future generations.Yhey are not just for conservation nazis.Learn to share.

I would love to get to know some of you local guys better and to share ideas and knowledge and yes even a few hot spots.
however any time you ask the government to take care of a problem for you, you loose freedom and most of the time its done wrong.
What we need to do is to form an org.
Mid West Herp society and study the laws and impact them for the future.
I do collect occasionaly for the purpose of showing the animals in my education programs, in which i have had over 600 kids attend in the last six months, most were with the local county library and the county parks dept.
when was the last time a Government agency educated that many kids on the importance of conservation of reptiles??????
Get involved and give our hobby the credit it is due, who else studies on their own like herpers???
we should be esteemed not looked on as criminal.
and we should police our ranks and follow the laws untell we can bhange the ones that do not serve the people or animals.
Chris

Hoosier Reptiles

Looks like you have a good start in herpetology, Chris. You seem to care about the herps and educating children and the public in general and you realize that laws are important. Unfortunately, the government is not in the business of educating people. That's left to the teachers among us and dedicated individuals who are trying to make a difference.

Government agencies do some things that help herps, like setting up preserves and programs at local nature centers, etc. Other agencies help to preserve habitat for animals too, like the Nature Conservancy, etc. Government also tries to control the bad element amongst us, and it takes all kinds.

There are/and have been some great herpetologists. There are large numbers of folks that participate in herp societies, herp forums, and other avenues of education, etc. There's huge numbers of folks interested in herps, but don't have the knowledge and experience to help control things. There's also those scumbags that try to profit in a way that's unlawful or harmful to honest herpers and/or the herps themselves. The way I see it is the more people who care and do something the better it is. So we just keep doing our little bit and hope it catches on.

Thanks for listening.

Terry