Reptile & Amphibian Forums

where do you guys buy from? cricket stench and sounds are driving me crazy lol, with my anoles i never had this many so it was not bad and they must not have been big enough to make sound...so where do you get your silkies from? and its about -.5 degrees here right now also...so ill have to overnight them i guess, and i dont know how many silkies=1000 crics? bc im trying to compare prices...thanks guys

PAT

Hey Pat, I don't do silkies (too hard/expensive to get and keep out here) but look into roaches also. They're quiet, don't smell, breed like mad, and are more nutritional than crix. Once you get over the fact that you are actually keeping and breeding roaches they really make a great feeder source.

Sean
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Heart Mountain Herps

yeah im having trouble getting any feeders here really, it being like -3 last night and let me see...16 today, it sucks, lol, the extra shipping charges stink...and sean..

haha my last post got deleted lol, anyway, i forget what i was going to say sean...let me think...oh yeah can you email me a care sheet on the roaches if you have one? and god my last post had it all but i cursed and then explained that the girl i am living with my exfiance hates the smell and noise of crics so im not sure how she will deal with roaches...can you dust roaches? are they hard to care for stuff like that...

thanks

Pat

I don't have a care sheet on them but they are way easy. I'd go with lobsters, they breed like mad. They can climb glass so it's important to either get some bug stop or wipe a strip of vaseline around the top. I started off with a couple thousand that I threw into an old 150 gal tank with a UTH on it. They took off and now I've got 4 tanks full of them lol, that's with daily feedings coming out. I put a substrate of the recipe I gave you earlier and then a bunch of old egg cartons and toilet paper rolls. I mist the walls down a couple times a week and throw them leftover salad (or whatever I've got laying around) the rest of the time for moisture. No smell, no noise. You can dust them all you want but they are naturally higher in calcium than a cricket. What's even better, if you decide to blow that place and leave it to the ex you can let a few hundred go on your way out and she'll never get rid of them lol. I've never had a problem with them escaping on their own though, you just have to take some extra precautions than with crix.

Sean
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Heart Mountain Herps

okay...hmm where would be good place to get a starter group? , and another question way off base...

i use the rep-cal-calcium with D3 in it, dust all the crics with it...should i be using another sup as well? like a vitamin sup?

Ya, vitamins (like Viteall) once a week or so. Check over on the feeder classifieds, there is usually someone selling starter groups of roaches, I got mine in a trade deal a while back. I'm also thinking about starting to give starter groups away with baby purchases. They wouldn't be for feeding right away but should build a population big enough by the time the babies are old enough to take the full grown ones that people would never have to buy crix again, what do you think of that idea? I've also tried DeathHeads, OrangeSpotted, Discoids, and Hissers but haven't had as good of luck with them as the lobsters.

Sean
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Heart Mountain Herps

okay...so my dragon was born august 20th...i left my digi at my parents or i would show you a pic but he is about a foot little less or more IDK, but is he way too small to eat the lobsters?

Oh no, he's fine. Full grown they're about the size of a large cricket but with a soft body (less impaction risk) and about twice the nutritional value. I even feed the babies little ones, they're just a pain in the butt to pick out lol.

Sean
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Heart Mountain Herps

okay thats cool, ill give them a shot when im done with the batches of crics i got. i didnt realize how many crics 2000 actually is lol, i mean he usually eats like 120 a day but 2000 is still one heck of a lot

thanks for all yoru help though

oh and what is a UTH sean? you said you had one with your tank?

It's an Under Tank Heater, it came on the tank when I got it. You could always wire in some flexwatt or just a heating pad. They seem to do better when it's warmer (mid 80's).

Sean
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Heart Mountain Herps

first, check the roach forum here at KS. good info there.

Lobsters are small and a pain to feed and care for compared to other types. They are great for babies but it takes an awful lot to fill up a juvie or sub adult. You should look at the larger roaches like Death Heads, Orange Heads, Hissers...

these are 50 gallon tubs of Death Heads

.

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Bennett

beardiedragon.com
Home of the Florida Orange

can they fly? i see wings...just wondering, and isnt lobsters what sean said he usses??

yes he uses lobsters. so do I but only for babies and BDs under 12"

lobsters and death heads have wings but do not fly. it is only to beak their fall, they only flutter.
Death heads do not climb like lobsters so they are less likely to escape.

here are lobsters in a deli cup

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Bennett

beardiedragon.com
Home of the Florida Orange

hard to get to breed? My husband said NEVER bring a roach in here, thats where he said he would draw the line, hehehhehe !

But the death heads do not climb and would never get out right?

And how many would you need as a stater group, and how long before you had enough, not to have to buy any ?

Sorry for all the questions, I'm just tossing the change over around in my mind. I breed crickets, and buy some adults to replenish egg supplies.

But I'm going through thousandSSS monthly and always on the verge of NOT having enough. I want it to the point of not having to give it a thought about ever running low, if ya know what I mean !

Would appreciate knowing how many and how long before I have an abundance.( Thousands)????

Thanks
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Eve / PHEve

Hey Eve,

I think Bennett has had much better luck with Death Heads than me lol. I really can't get them to breed much past sustaining their numbers (without feeding off any). Orange Spotted and Discoids also don't climb glass so you may want to check them out also. I've had about the same luck with them though. Maybe I didn't buy enough to start with (about 50 of each)??? So far lobsters are the only ones that have done very well for me. I wanted to avoid the glass climbers at first also but it really hasn't been a problem I just run a 4" band of vaseline around the top of the cage and then freshen it up once every couple months. And Bennett, what do you mean lobsters are too small? They're larger than a cricket, granted no where near as big as hissers or the others though, but for the beardies I like them (I suppose it would be different if I was trying to feed your collection lol).

Sean
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Heart Mountain Herps

to breed the lobsters, as far as their size may be best for what I need . I would be feeding about 26 collared lizards, and their offspring in the spring, they can handle large crickets at about a month old.

I also have a beardie, some black agamas, shieldtail agamas,
emerald swifts, giant day geckos , banded geckos and then big leaftails, who naturally eat hissers in the wild.
These are some of my bug eaters, so would the lobsters be a better size for these smaller lizards?

Or can I use young death heads for the small lizards and larger roaches to the larger? Just never saw these guys up close and personal, LOL
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Eve / PHEve

Well I started with 250 lobster roaches in June and now have a couple thousand of them. I was feeding about 50-60 crickets aday and now only have to feed off about 20 lobsters a day to my Beardie. I really like the lobsters but have decided to try my hand with discoids. I bought 12 adults with a few babies and now i have seen three of the adults with hatching egg sacks. Pretty cool to watch. I decided to try the discoids cause they don't climb and its alot easier to remove them from their food.

Its really a pain to knock the lobsters off of orange peels and left over apples. As for the collard lizards and stuff the Lobsters would be perfect they multiply so fast you will be able to feed off the babies and not have to worry about having plenty.

I'll take roachs over crik's anyday. No smell,no chirpping and they just don't die off.

I started with 50 about 3 years ago. it took a while to figure things out as husbandry tips were not so available then. As you can see I am now overstocked and even have a few customers that I sell to regularly. Once you get the cycle down, you have more roaches than you know what to do with. Sean, give me a ring and I can give you some tips.

If you feed off adults, the wings have no nutrients and are harder to digest. By feeding off adults, it is hard to get the population to grow. I prefer not to feed off adults. Non-adults range in size from pinhead to about 1" like crix but have more meat and moisture and are easier to digest. I find them hard to sort by size so you end up feeding a lot of tiny ones. A 16" BD can eat a 50-100+ good size lobsters in a day. if you have smaller lobsters your 16+" BD will be chasing a lot of little roaches all over. if sand is your substrate your looking for trouble. so quantity is a drawback. I do not have tubs except for babies so roaches that climb can climb out of vision cages unless you supervise feedings very carefuly.

Death Heads get to be much bigger. I can get a dozen or so various size DH out of a bin, toss them into a BD cage and walk away. they wont climb out and that is a full meal. Also a higher meat to chiton ratio. They are also easier for the BD to catch. They dont climb to get away, staying just out of tongues reach.

Some feeder tubs

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Bennett

beardiedragon.com
Home of the Florida Orange

than an adult cricket is a dead head adult? I could feed the large ones to my leaftails, beardie and bullfrog and the smaller lizards could eat the smaller dead heads then right?

I like the fact the lobsters breed fast, but not that they climb. Even with the vasoline. I drop a few crickets a week getting them out. Its not uncommom to find a cricket in the bathroom or whatever.

Thats why my husband says no roaches, he knows some crix escape.
I have to do something LOL need more bugs, heheehhe
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Eve / PHEve

maybe this will give you an idea. that is a turkey leg and they are climbing on egg flats.

Lobstars are more prolific and will make great food for for you smaller lizards, hard to beat BUT they do climb and you have to keep an eye on them when you feed or your reptile enclosure must be escape proof for roaches. That means vasaline or teflon.

now if you want to see something really big...?

.

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Bennett

beardiedragon.com
Home of the Florida Orange

OMG WOW, those are hudge...would you say that the death heads are too big for my 12" beardie? maybe i can keep the roaches at a friends house to breed and then just bring over what i need for a couple days wonder if she will be okay with that...

these little guys are expensive...1000 for 55!!!!!!!!!!!! thats crazy...i mean the return will be great if you get a colony started i guess its more than worth it though...

you can get them for less in quantity, but roaches are an investment. and then you have to feed and care for them too. During season, we go through 5-10 lbs of food a day for feeders alone
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Bennett

beardiedragon.com
Home of the Florida Orange

If you are breeding them in any quantity, you will alays have a variety of sizes to choose from so you can feed hatchlings up to adults.

One thing that has not been mentoned is life span. Since DH live longer and take longer to grow and mature than lobsters, you need a larger colony and since the grow much larger, you need more space for them. I keep 1000 adults in a 50 gallon tub and rotate them out every few months.
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Bennett

beardiedragon.com
Home of the Florida Orange

that For the types of lizards I have I could use dead heads and could have small enough for baby lizards and big enough for larger, at all times? Or are you still referring to the lobsters?

I think Lobsters are OUT of the question, I could see that starting trouble if even one was found out.

But on the other hand it does not seem as though I could breed enough DH's (quick enough) to feed everyone.

I use about 4000 crickets a month not counting other worms and things. How long would it take to build a breeding colony of DH's to be able to meet these demands????????? LOL
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Eve / PHEve

you can feed DH to all your lizards. baby DH for baby lizards and so on...

as to quantity, roaches cant really be equated to crix. here are some numbers to chew on. From what I have been able to gather, they can get pregnant at about 6 months. they stay pregnant for life after one mating. they can have 20-50 babies every 3-4 months. they live 2-3 years.

I started with 50 and did not use them as feeders very often for the first year. Now I cant feed enough of them and my stock keeps growing.

Let me know if you want a bargin, I'll make you a deal. contact me off list
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Bennett

beardiedragon.com
Home of the Florida Orange

through email of course, LMAO, sent him your pic Bennet of the 50 gallon tubs of roaches, should go over BIG, LOL

I explained their life span as compared with the crickets, and how they breed. And no smell, NO CLIMBING or flying.

I'm sure it will he will FREAK. He does not mind crickets seen them his whole life, likes the singing (me too) sounds like your camping out. BUT................

He hates roaches, and cant imagine them in our home. But even with me breeding, I'm still always spending money for more crickets to keep up with the egg laying.
Need adults all the time. They do die off quick.

Right now, I have gone through most of my tiny crickets as my Emerald swifts had kids, and I have 8, 5 week old EATING machines. But they need 1/4 inch crix, and have wiped out my young ones.

Even having the cycle down, it is alot of extra work always seperating the containers of soil,after a 4 - 7 day wait for egg laying. And if you dont get them in time, the males dug up and eat the eggs.

And now that the temps dropped, the room is cooler so adults have to be heated in order to lay, and eggs have to be heated in order to hatch. AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

Bennet, I will let you know what kind of reply I get from my husband.
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Eve / PHEve

n/p
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www.classylizard.com
Home of the Classy Lizard Hammock

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http://forums.kingsnake.com/view.php?id=630884,631118
another roach discusson

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Bennett

beardiedragon.com
Home of the Florida Orange