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Has anyone done the breeding / pairing of Snow to Ghost and if so what was there clutch results? I understand that there may not be many clutches like this to date.
Does anyone else have plans for this soon?

>>Has anyone done the breeding / pairing of Snow to Ghost and if so what was there clutch results? I understand that there may not be many clutches like this to date.
>>Does anyone else have plans for this soon?

well, the outcome should be anerys het for hypo and albino.

the pairing is tentatively on my list for 05. If you're thinking about triple homozygous animals, i've got a male hypo het/albino het/anery and a female like him, plus two hypo het/albino possible het anery females. Their main purpose is to produce hybinos, but any snow that comes out of their clutches would be a triple-homozygous. The reason i said the snow x ghost pairing is tentative is that it's tempting to breed the ghost to this male, too: I'd get hypos double het for anery and albino, and ghosts het/albino. The former would be good for producing hybinos and would produce the occasional triple-homozygous. The latter would produce babies 1/4 of which would be triple-homogygous.

Or so i think, did i get that right?

terry

Terry,
Thanks for you reply. Yes, my thoughts are in regards to the triple-homozygous animals and when we will start to see these produced or produce them ourselves. These will be a far superior animal with such great potential. I had figured it would come from you or just a select few and hope to see them in o5.
Question for you on the Hypo x Albino = Hybino Do you or others know of the this double mutation happening in other species?
Adam

Terry ive been wondering about HYBINO, hypomelanin. meaning reduced Black x Amel meaning no black?,though some of the hypos are a lil different in pattern .or it(Dbl Homo) will produce both Albino & hypos.or whats the goal? Chris.........

>>i've got a male hypo het/albino het/anery and a female like him, plus two hypo het/albino possible het anery females.

sorry, i erred: I have the one female hypo het/albino het/anery, and ONE female hypo het/albino poss het/anery. The third female is hypo 2/3 chance het/albino, no chance of the anery gene--but she's still got a shot at producing hybinos.

terry

Boy, it WAS late at night when i wrote that:

>> it's tempting to breed the ghost to this male, too: I'd get hypos double het for anery and albino, and ghosts het/albino

this is obviously wrong, the male is het albino so the babies woiuld only be possible hets for albino, not nearly as productive as the babies from snow x ghost that are anery DEF het for both hypo and albino. So--barring further considertions!--yeah, adam, i think i'll do the ghost x snow pairing.

i apologize for the misstatements and hope i didn't confuse anyone.

>>terry

You have a albino male that is het for hypo right?
You breed him to a ghost female and the hypos that are produced are 100% dbl-het for snow.
So when they are bred together all the snows are triples for sure.

Thats the fastest way to the triple unless somebody has some ghosts that are poss het amel from triple clutches and they both prove out?

I believe you did the snow x ghost breeding in 2003?
I have a anery male here that is 100% het for amel and hypo from that clutch?Did you forget about that?

Later shannon

as I have ghosts that had the same dad, which threw albinos and moms were poss hets

thanks
mgl

>>as I have ghosts that had the same dad, which threw albinos and moms were poss hets
>>
>>thanks
>>mgl

that's great, if i understand correctly you have a pair of ghosts that are possible het albino, and if they are they can produce triple homozygous at 1 in 4! Keep us posted! Will they be first year breeders?
terry

yup Terry, they are poss het albinos and this will be year 1 for them...hopefully I'll get lucky as I did w/ the snows

thanks
mgl

Hi everyone,

If the goal is to produce a snake that is 100% homozygous for all the 3 recessive genes (hypo, albino, and anerythristic), then the "Snow X Ghost breeding/pairing" is an interesting way to evenutually (not right away, meaning the offsprings of the above pair) will eventually lead to the coveted snake that is visually and homozygous for all 3 genes at the same time.

Snow (homozygous albino, homozygous anery) bred with Ghost (homozygous hypo, homozygous anery) will produce the following results:

100% Homozygous anerythristic, 100% Definite Het. albino, 100% Definite Het. hypo

SO NOW, these offsprings bred in the future with each other would yield the following:

6.25% Homozygous anerythristic, no trait for hypo and albino
12.5% Homozygous anerythristic, Het. hypo, no trait for albino
6.25% Homozygous anerythristic, Homozygous hypo, no trait albino
12.5% Het. albino, Homozygous anerythristic, no trait hypo
25% Het. albino, Homozygous anerythristic, Het. hypo
12.5% Het. albino, Homozygous anerythristic, Homozygous hypo (visually a Ghost but also het for albino)
6.25% Homozygous albino, Homozygous anerythristic, no trait hypo
12.5% Homozygous albino, Homozygous anerythristic, Het. hypo (visually a Snow but also het for hypo)
6.25% Homozygous albino, Homozygous anerythristic, Homozygous hypo (This is the coveted snake that is visually showing all 3 genes)

It is interesting to note that if the anerythristic gene is involved in this particular breeding route, there is no chance of getting a hybino...but on the right course for getting a snake showing all 3 genes at the same time...and along the way, can get some ghost and snow.

Of course, there are other ways of reaching the stage of "Homozygous albino, Homozygous anerythristic, Homozygous hypo"...but however we honduran milksnakes lovers reach that point, it is exciting to say the least.

I hope I get the numbers right as I have checked and rechecked my statistical probability calculations.

Thanks and have a good one.
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RAY

Its not your numbers but,
The problem with all those 12.5% etc.....are that you won't know if they are or aren't het?There will just be a bunch of possible hets except they would all be 100% het for anery.

The other thing is that by breeding a pair of anerys that are 100% het for hypo and amel (from snow x ghost parents)you would never know even if you did produce a pearl (triple homozygous)because you wouldn't know if it was just a snow or if it was a hypo snow (triple homo).

If you breed a amel that is het hypo x a ghost then the hypos that are produced are dbl-het for snow for sure.
You breed these together and all the snows are for sure pearls?

Anyways,There are a few ways to go but atleast this route you would know that you have one hatching as they pip?

shannon

I agree that there are a bunch of 12.5% that are visually anerythristic and are not sure if they are just homozygous anerythristic or het for albino or het for hypo as well. I guess with those anerys, more future test breeding needs to happen.

But, with what you are saying about the difference between just a "snow" and a "hypo snow" (which is a triple homozygous of the 3 genes), has anyone really produced that animal and is proven to be triple homozygous? My guess is that animal has to be visually different in color/shade from just a snow (homozygous both albino and anerythristic).

Until then, it is exciting nonetheless...

later...
-----
RAY

Ray,

The triple homo is in the smae boat as the hybino?There may be a couple (2 at the most)of them already (from triple het x triple het) but only test breeding will tell the story?

Thats why I was saying there is a simple way to produce "known" triple homozygous and know it the minute they start to hatch.

Any snows produced from a breeding of hypos dbl-het snow will be for sure 100% triple homozygous.

We should see one next year or in 06.

Shannon

I should have mentioned,

That is acually the second best way to get the triple cause it will only yeild a 1 in 16 triple.

The best way (but may take a little longer at first)is to have a pair of ghosts that are het for amel?
To build these you need to be really lucky and just save back some from triple het breedings or you can breed for them like this:

You take a snow and breed it to a hybino (has to be a acual hybino)and you will get some amels in that breeding and they will be defenite dbl-het for ghost.Raise one of these guys up and breed it to a ghost and all the ghosts will be het amel.
Then breed two ghosts that are het amel together and you will get 1 in 4 pearls (triple homos).

Anyways,This will take like 5 or 6 years but may prove to be just as fast and in six years it will be 25% of the clutch.

Anyways,Its all fun and I am glad we are keeping pretty good track of all this so it doesn't get away from us like it has with so many other species.

Shannon

I have a male snow that is 50% het hypo that I plan to breed to a female hypoery that is 100% het albino and 66% het hypo. If I am lucky and if both are het hypo I will get 1 out of 8 pearls, 3 out of 8 snows that are 66% het hypo, 1 out of 8 ghost that are 100% het albino, and 3 out of 8 hypoery

sorry
3 out of 8 hypoery that are 100% het albino and 66% het hypo. I also plan to breed the snow male to a hpyo female to prove him out. We will see what comes out.
Kurt

Good luck kurt,Let us know how it turns out.The thing is will you know that they are pearls when they are born?A pearl could just look like a snow?

Anyways,Will they go next year or are they just babies?

shannon

The male snow is a 04 and the female hypoery is a 03, so hopefully in 06.

Cool,
Let us know,

shannon