Reptile & Amphibian Forums

what would the offspring be, unsure of how the two dominats would work out, in my head it looks like this

25% pastels
25% spiders
50% normals
1/16 bumbees

Thanks for the help if you want to go any farther, I'd love to know what a killerbee x normal offspring would become.

25% pastels
25% spiders
25% normals
25% bumbees
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RicK @ BbI

Ball Boutique,Inc.
Proud sponsor of this forum

>>25% pastels
>>25% spiders
>>25% normals
>>25% bumbees
>>-----
>>RicK @ BbI
>>
>> Ball Boutique,Inc.
>>Proud sponsor of this forum
>>
>>

...spiders dominant? Wouldn't they all be spiders but half of them Bumble Bees?
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JMHO, FWIW, YMMV.

Not unless the spider was homozygous........n/p

>>Not unless the spider was homozygous........n/p

It's a dominant gene is it not?
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JMHO, FWIW, YMMV.

Yeah, spider is dominant. And that is PRECISELY why you can have a spider that is heterozygous. The spider pattern is dominant ove the "normal" pattern, therefore only ONE allele needs to be present. THEREFORE, you can get normals because the spider can still GIVE a normal allele to the zygote.

>>Yeah, spider is dominant. And that is PRECISELY why you can have a spider that is heterozygous. The spider pattern is dominant ove the "normal" pattern, therefore only ONE allele needs to be present. THEREFORE, you can get normals because the spider can still GIVE a normal allele to the zygote.

I thought co-doms like pastels were visable hets and the supers were the homozygous. I thought the spiders were doms and were all visable homozygous. The way I understand it is when you cross a spider(dom) with a normal you get all spiders?
http://www.newenglandreptile.com/genetics_codom.html
Just when I think I have it figured out...
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JMHO, FWIW, YMMV.

A spider to normal does not produce all spiders, it should be about 50/50 (normal & spider), just like a pastel. Some spiders have thrown all spider offspring when bred to a normal, so there may be a super (Homo) that just looks like an average "normal" spider, but I have no clue....(I never said there was a super spider, so all you nit pickin pricks can shove it!!)
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Chad Bachman

"Some spiders have thrown all spider offspring when bred to a normal"

Can you confirm this please?

I know that early on last year there where posts about a couple candidates for homozygous spider that did produce all spiders out of some early clutches but then produced some normals out of later clutches.

I suppose with the number of new spiders being bred ever year even without a homozygous spider there should be several that just happen to produce a small number of all spider offspring their first year. Basically I'm wondering how many proven breeder spiders are still candidates for the first proven homozygous spider and just exactly what their breeding results have been so far (i.e. where they bred to normals or spiders and how many all spider offspring did they produce). It's getting far enough into this project that we should be seeing a homozygous spider proven soon if it's possible. If it's not possible (homozygous lethal) then we need to start tracking enough breeding results to prove it.

Just going by ear, but I believe it. I don't know how many clutches the particular spiders produced & if other clutches resulted in the same ratio.
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Chad Bachman

If its DOMINANT, then why would you need BOTH alleles to be spiders? You don't. That my friend, is the definition of a RECESSIVE gene.

I think what is happening is that you are getting the terms 'homozygous' and 'dominant' mixed up. They do NOT mean the same thing, they are two different things. With the exception of sex cells, all genes come in pairs. if both genes (alleles) at a specific locus are identical, then they are considered homozygous. If both genes at a specific locus are different from each other, they are considered heterozygous.

Dominant means that half of the gene pair 'overpowers' the other half so that the entire gene takes on the characteristic of the dominant side. A completely dominant mutation would look the same in either a homozygous or a heterozygous situation. In the case of spiders, the gene that causes the spider pattern mutation is dominant over the gene that causes a normal pattern.

I know this is a fairly simplistic explanation, but I didn't want to write a book. I hope that makes things a little more clear?

Mark

>>>>Yeah, spider is dominant. And that is PRECISELY why you can have a spider that is heterozygous. The spider pattern is dominant ove the "normal" pattern, therefore only ONE allele needs to be present. THEREFORE, you can get normals because the spider can still GIVE a normal allele to the zygote.
>>
>>I thought co-doms like pastels were visable hets and the supers were the homozygous. I thought the spiders were doms and were all visable homozygous. The way I understand it is when you cross a spider(dom) with a normal you get all spiders?
>>http://www.newenglandreptile.com/genetics_codom.html
>>Just when I think I have it figured out...
>>-----
>>JMHO, FWIW, YMMV.
>>

Rick is right,

25% of each bumble bee, pastel, normal, spirder. When breeding bumblebee to normal.

Killer bee to normal will give 50% pastel and 50% bumble bee.
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Nita Hamilton
4.9 Normal BP's, 1.0 Het Orange Ghost BP
On the way 1.0 Het Pied 0.4 Normal BP's

The killerbee is a homozygous (super) pastel spider, right?

It's existence and fairly quick creation proves that spider and pastel are on different chromosomes, or at least not close together if on the same chromosome (probably on different ones but I just don’t know how frequent crossovers are).

However, as more crosses are made we are almost sure to find two morphs on the same chromosome. The odds above are right for different chromosomes but we might eventually find something that gets a little more complicated. For example, if it turns out that granite and yellow belly are on the same chromosome (but not the same gene which is also possible) then the ebony will produce about 50% granite and 50% yellow belly with very few if any ebony or normals when bred to a normal. It will be fun to see if any of these weird combo snakes are from genes linked in some way. Will the pewters produce any normals when bred to normal?