Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hi all,

This is a bit long but I think is important especially with the many new “faces” on the forum and what seems like a surge of gravid chams.

For those of you who know me I think most would consider me an attentive and caring Mom to Luna - even if I do occasionally freak out, but I think a 5 month clutch development (last year) warranted it! She has been with me since Sept. 2003 and has been a healthy, albeit small, little sweetie.

Well, I have had a rather distressing few days with her and wanted to share it with you. She has eaten little for the past several weeks and I figured she was developing eggs again (never been bred) and as her ribs/belly became distended I was sure. I gave her Neo-Calglucon (liquid calcium) that I had purchased online for her last clutch in late July (the vet had none in stock) to insure plenty of calcium in her system.

She had become very thirsty, which I figured was the drier air (NH) even though her dripper runs almost all day, I also hand water her with a bottle and of course misting and humidifier. (I work from home (and she is in my office) so I cater to her and all my critters needs – they have me well trained

About a week ago, I noticed her casque was a bit crooked. On Saturday, it appeared “shrunken” and she seemed dehydrated. I added showering her twice a day (she loved it) but she just didn’t seem to be responding to the increased moisture. I was concerned about the casque issue and put her on the ground to see her walk and noticed a problem with her back left leg – it was bent at an odd angle at the ankle joint. I called my vet, who was gone for the day, and made an appt. for this morning with the main objective being fluids. I wrapped her up, warmed up the car and fortunately had a heat pack on hand – it has been snowing all day – and drove the 45 minutes in a slippery, snowy, holiday-shopping mess. (This vet is down the road from a Mall!)

Her grip is still quite strong (he could barely get her to release the branch I had her on for transport) so I was surprised at his diagnosis – the beginnings of MBD. He gave her subcutaneous fluids, and me a bottle of NCg, agreed she was developing eggs and will see us in a week.

So how did all of this happen? I am not entirely sure but I had been suspicious about the NCg I had gotten last summer. The look, smell and even the taste was not the same as what I gotten from the vet for her clutch last year. I had ordered it online from a company who I had never done business with (nor even heard of) but they were the only ones who had it on hand and would send me a small enough amount. They were rude and it took over a week to get here. I brought the bottle with me today to the vet and he agreed that it appeared to be not much more than sugar water. I do not know this for sure so I am not blaming them (though I do hope to have it tested and will surely let you know) but with her previous clutches this has never happened and she goes on a serious hunger strike and often takes in nothing but water and NCg for weeks. She also had lost 10g in 2 weeks – I am thinking this may have been due to bone loss from the calcium being drawn in order to form her eggs. The dehydration? Maybe I just didn’t up her humidity and misting soon enough, maybe the NCg is perfectly good and I didn’t give her enough…I am totally thrown by all of this and of course worried for her. I am always taking photos of her so I have a “record” of her health and in just 2 weeks, the difference is pretty incredible.

Well, I guess the point in all of this is that even the best efforts can sometimes not be enough and that this is a perfect example of how well they hide their symptoms until problems are far along. I also want to point out the importance of having ready access to a qualified vet – you just never know how quickly you may need one – and that when it comes to our animals we cannot fall short on their care and the sometimes-necessary expense.

OK, enough said. I hope that sharing this experience might make a difference to another cham at some point in the future. Keep her in your thoughts that she will be able to lay this clutch without any complications and that she will get back on track.

lele
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0.1 veiled - Luna
0.2 felines - Kyndra and Líta
1.0 African Clawed Frog - Skipper
0.5 Mad. Hissers
0.1 Chilean Rose Hair Tarantula (no name yet)
?.? Goliath Bird-Eater Tarantula (no name yet)

Lele/Luna,

Hang in there girlfriends. About 5 years ago I had a female cam. And like you Lele, I was Well Trained. I thought I did everything right and Started to notice the shrinking casque, took her to the vet and she also had MBD. My vet (who has cams, and gecko's), was very helpfull. I thought of everything as a "good mom". My cams have top of the line watering/misting systems and humidifiers in there room. I always feed the crickets gut loading and made sure they ( the crickets) had water. So I was devistated to learn that that was not enough. I put her on some calcium and I also bought some electrolites from the pet store. She too was gravid. All I can offer is make sure that you force her eat and drink. especially eat. I had to hand feed my cam for about 2 months. I started raising my own meal worms that I harvest in chick feed and carrots. I would feed her 2 cut in 1/2 in the morning and at night. I would also make sure she drank plenty of water with vitamins and a stress easer in it. The one thing that you have to remember is it might not take them long to get sick, but It takes time for them to get better. While my cam was recovering, I took her out of her cage and placed her in a smaller, more private home, with less braches. This will help so they don't fall and hurt themselves. After she has her eggs, if you can't get her to eat, make sure she gets water. Hopefully you caught it before it's too bad, but I know you are a caring mom and things will work out for you both. Luna will be in our prayers.
Juanita

Thanks Juanita for sharing your experience. I am getting repta-aid, with her calcium mixed in, into her a couple times a day. She is drinking constantly. The vet wants us back on Monday but I am thinking of bringing her in sooner for more fluids. Not sure what to do...
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0.1 veiled - Luna
0.2 felines - Kyndra and Líta
1.0 African Clawed Frog - Skipper
0.5 Mad. Hissers
0.1 Chilean Rose Hair Tarantula (no name yet)
?.? Goliath Bird-Eater Tarantula (no name yet)

Lele,

So sorry to hear of the recent developments, but don't despair, although insidious, MBD is definitely treatable, especially for a cham whose mom is as astute as you are!

I am sure you thought of this, but check your UV lights, that they're relatively "fresh" and the problems aren't stemming from the UV source. Just an idea I wanted to throw out, sometimes I forget to check the age of the bulbs when I'm racking my brain over my setups!

Best of wishes to Luna, I'm sure she'll be back to normal soon,
~Kerry

Hi Kerry,

funny you should mention UVB. My ZooMed MV bulb died again(!) and I am waiting for them to ship me a new one. She has always had a 5.0 on another part of the cage but it needs replacing. I had a repti-glo 2.0 that I got as a freebie with a strip light so I have added that. I am going to buy (UGH! at full pet store price!) a new repti-sun. I am not going to use the MVB again as I am finding it too unreliable and of all times for it to fail!

thanks!
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0.1 veiled - Luna
0.2 felines - Kyndra and Líta
1.0 African Clawed Frog - Skipper
0.5 Mad. Hissers
0.1 Chilean Rose Hair Tarantula (no name yet)
?.? Goliath Bird-Eater Tarantula (no name yet)

From all of us here at Exotic Earth reptiles(which is just me lol), I will offer up a prayer for Luna. Believe me, I have prayed many times for Titus.

That's the thing with reptiles; one minute their fine, the next terrible. They can be as tough as tanks or delicate as a flower. It's this dance that makes reptiles so fun(and keeps the fairweather keepers from staying).

Just so I say it before i forget, thanks lele for all the help you have given me and so many people.
God Bless
Matt
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A truly wise man will always be humbled.

sorry to hear the bad news! i'm in a similar situation with my 2yr old male veiled(charles). the vet came over the house to check on the cage & set-up. one rear leg is fatter than the other. one front foot is dark in color even when he's bright green(only noticed recently). the sad news is he might loose half a foot from what we don't know. an injury from where? the children are saying not me!?!? he was dehydrated so i've increased the humidity. he is slowly taking banana and ensure mixture subcribed by the vet. i've increased the length of daylight too. i will soon be adding a pothos plant in the cage. there is so much to learn and do when one becomes ill. we learn from these experiences and get to understand them better. slow to show sick symptoms and very slow to recover.
ivanhoe

Sorry to hear that, I hope Luna can get well soon. Besides, I agreed that cham is master in hinding their illness. So, it sometime give us a hard time in treating them.

I'll keep you posted

lele
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0.1 veiled - Luna
0.2 felines - Kyndra and Líta
1.0 African Clawed Frog - Skipper
0.5 Mad. Hissers
0.1 Chilean Rose Hair Tarantula (no name yet)
?.? Goliath Bird-Eater Tarantula (no name yet)