Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hello,

I was watching Meet the Press Sunday night. The panel was made up of several Democrats and Republicans. I don't recall their names. One of them was Joe Biden. For the others I suppose you could find their names on the program's website.

Tim Russert, the host, made an interesting point that I hadn't heard before. He said that "by the end of next year" we will have officially cycled through all of our National Guard and Reserves troops.

With violence getting worse every day (yesterday, 60 people were killed and hundreds injured, and today, 20 people were killed in an explosion at a supposedly secure military base), how are we NOT going to have a draft?

This by no means is a call for a flame war! I'm genuinely interested to hear your input.

Thanks,

tethered

Over thirty years ago a president said that we would stay in Viet Nam to assure that democracy would prevail.

Today we have a president that is every bit determined as that one was long ago. And in a situation almost as unstable.

Expect a draft.

Frank
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"The luxury of not getting involved departed with the last lifeboat Skipper..."

I hope this is not going to occur. Its MY opinion that if the nitwit bureaucrats give us a draft, the war in Iraq will be the LAST thing they'll be needin' to deal with. I THINK and hope they know this (I'm sure they do), but I've been wrong before. Making a draft will be just the thing to make almost EVERYONE in this country go ranting mad (I'd join 'em cheerfully).
Thanes Place

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Thane

What's the alternative to a draft, though?

I wish I could tell you with 100 % certainty not to worry about it. I think if they pull a draft on us for this Iraq deal, they are really just shooting themselves in the foot. We'd better worry about our OWN borders and security issues in that case. Good way to start Ameri-qaeda I'd guess I forget what was said about this, and it made sense when I heard it, but I honestly don't recall the comments about it: Basically they stated and outlined some very good reasons a draft will never be necessary. I wish I remembered what and where this was said and by whom. Now, if our country came under attack, with soldiers attacking us from elsewhere, I don't think a draft would be necessary at all. As it stands though, we're trying to bring democracy to a population that will not accept it from us, maybe someone else, but not us. If we could somehow unite some moderates with the radical, warlike branches of their theology, maybe THEY could get some results. I think it would involve us getting out of there, which is somewhat dangerous, right now, for obvious reasons. It's a big nasty mess, but I think if we would have left it totally alone, in time we'd have gotten hit pretty hard. Maybe not, but how can you predict the future outcomes of leaving such warlike genocidal dictators in power ?
Thanes Place

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Thane

Funny that the idea of a draft would make you "Ranting mad" but the idea of invading a country that has not harmed the U.S., that has been proven NOT to have the store of biological and nuclear weapons necessary to justify such a war, that the killing and maiming of literally tens of thousands of Iraq women and children...none of these seemed to have much of an effect upon your person, at least not as much as a mandatory draft would. To close to home eh?

Fredrick Albury

A draft would make MOST of us ranting mad I beleive. iT'S MY understanding that Saddam wouldn't even cooperate with U.N. weapons inspectors to investigate whether or not he was making nuclear bombs or huge bio-weapons. Maybe he was, maybe he wasn't, I don't know. So, should we just throw up our hands, give up and leave alone a dictator who won't cooperate with the rest of the world to assure us they aren't building bombs to kill millions of us at once ? There were documents and equipment found that were suspicious, and even small bio-weapons. 'Ol saddam used his chemical and bioweapons on his own country folk mostly though (gassing the kurds). Him and his ilk tortured, raped and killed many of their own women and children. I don't think our purpose was to go there to kill women and children. These things happen in a war. The "effect upon MY person" would be it makes me sick. A mandatory draft wouldn't affect me (I'm too old) but would make me Ranting mad at it's effect on our country and the young of our country. This war could have been avoided if the rest of the world could have been assured that he wasn't working on something. If you absolutely MUST blame someone, blame Bush. Myself, I'll blame Saddam for not playing well with others, not even his OWN
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Thane

Perhaps even more unstable. If you look at the American casualties that took place in the first two years of the Iraq war and the Viet Nam war, the casualties in Iraq are higher. Around 2 years into Viet Nam, the casualties skyrocketed.

I'm 22 years old so I didn't experience Viet Nam and I don't have a very solid understanding of the factors that were in play. The factors in play right now seem to be pretty bad off, though. The violence is worsening. Iraqi civilians that once supported us are losing faith in our ability to provide security. The reported # of insurgents is increasing. And to make matters worse, the guy likely to win the election is a Shi'ite with ties to Iran, a country that's inching toward nuclear capability.

I'm a prime candidate to be drafted -- I'm 22, healthy, and able to run and shoot a gun. But I would rather sit in jail than fight for a war I don't support.

In Germany draft is mandatory since the Federal Republic of Germany exists. And I can tell you it's a nasty thing when you have to serve and you don't want to...

Several major German political magazines are foreboding that Bush will use his second time in office to carry through his idea of bringing democracy to the entire Middle East. The next target is surely Iran or Syria.

For this, soldiers are needed. But even if his second time in office will end without another war, more soldiers will be needed because the "coalition of the willing" carries on withdrawing soldiers from Iraq (like Poland has yesterday).

It is easy to cry "I am supporting Bush and the war on Iraq" when only tax dollars are involved. But if they get your very butt and throw it in the Middle East things look quite different.

Maybe people would contemplate the necessity of this war more thoroughly with a draft. So I think it is a good thing for the U.S.

You make a valid point. The idea that I like about an all volunteer military, though, is that any pragmatic (key word, pragmatic) leader would understand that thrusting us into a lie of a war would damage the military. When we lose faith in the cause we're fighting for, we don't sign up. But at the same time, if it's a war worth fighting, the enlistment facilities will be flooded with volunteers. Volunteers that WANT to fight, and will fight HARD.

In theory, it should keep us out of unnecessary wars, and make us stronger in necessary wars. In practice, after Viet Nam and up until Bush, the theory held up great.

Very good point. I hope it doesn't happen though.
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Thane

` If you're now in uniform, in the U.S. armed services, and you're getting short ( time left until discharge ), there is a de-facto draft already. You're not getting out anytime soon. You may end up in combat, not only without the necessary equipment, but without the necessary training, too.
` As I learned when I was drafted in 1968, whatever you agreed to, or were promised, when you were inducted, is simply lies. If you think you get flim-flammed when you buy a car, you ain't seen nothing!
` When I was drafted, I enlisted instead, to get choice of school, and duty. I had a written contract. For those of you who haven't served, you should keep this in mind, once in " They OWN you." You can be used, and EXPENDED, for no good reason. If you object, you life can become worse than you could imagine.
` Since most government ( ours especially ) is based on acquisition and use of power, and does NOT have the interests of the individual in mind, when you find yourself in its enforcement/defense structure, you're worse than a pawn. You are a tool, troop! You get used up, and another takes your place. You try to do the right thing, when they want otherwise, they can and will legally kill you, but they usually do it illegally.
` Remember this: The last head of a major state to lead his troops into battle was Napoleon Bonaparte. Of course, Bush did land on that carrier, in his cute flight suit.
` Whew, time to go back to snakekeeping.
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Stop the world-I want to get off!