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President Authorized Abu Ghraib Torture

undfun Dec 21, 2004 11:16 PM

Dec 21 - Repeated references in an internal FBI email suggest that the president issued a special order to permit some of the more objectionable torture techniques used at Abu Ghraib and other US-run prison facilities around Iraq. The email was among a new batch of FBI documents revealed by civil rights advocates on Monday. Other documents describe the initiation of investigations into alleged incidents of torture and rape at detention facilities in Iraq.

The email, which was obtained by the American Civil Liberties Union, represents the first hard evidence directly connecting the Abu Ghraib prison abuse scandal and the White House. The author of the email, whose name is blanked out but whose title is described as "On Scene Commander -- Baghdad," contains ten explicit mentions of an "Executive Order" that the author said mandated US military personnel to engage in extraordinary interrogation tactics.

More: See link...
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Replies (9)

Thane Dec 22, 2004 10:33 AM

Repeated references in an internal FBI email suggest that the president issued a special order to permit some of the more objectionable torture techniques used at Abu Ghraib and other US-run prison facilities around Iraq.

(me)So, what were these "repeated references" ? Think it'd be worth knowing before we make an honest judgement.

The email, which was obtained by the American Civil Liberties Union, represents the first hard evidence directly connecting the Abu Ghraib prison abuse scandal and the White House.

(me)The A.C.L.U. has lost so much credibility with it's radical actions lately, we'd need verification from a second and third source before making an honest judgement. Hard evidence from the A.C.L.U. ? If this is true, as it's reported, it makes the current white house occupant look pretty bad.
Thanes Place

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Thane

repzoo44 Dec 22, 2004 01:54 PM

I saw some of this on the news. The tactics I saw listed were sleep deprivation and use of dogs. Cant remember what they did with dogs.

EP
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3.3 cats

rodmalm Dec 22, 2004 01:57 PM

but I bet Dan Rather knows the source, and has the doctored documents to prove it!!--LOL (and, where did the liberal media bury that story of deceit! I don't think I have ever seen such a serious event (trying to fraudulently influence a federal election) go away so fast.)

Seriously though, I heard this discussed yesterday by some experts. They said that interrogation techniques went beyond FBI protocols, and that was the basis of the memos. But since when was the FBI's rules used in a war!!!!!! It is military protocols for interrogation that would be used in war time!!!!!--ARghhh!!!! What's wrong with people now a days, can't they think!
If you are going to apply FBI rules, why not use Humane society rules, or better yet, Saddam's regimes rules--- makes just as much sense. Maybe if we did things like cut off their feet and dipped them in acid it would be OK because we would be using the
rules/techniques that were in effect in Iraq before we got there.

Rodney

rearfang Dec 22, 2004 05:33 PM

I am curious Rodney. What do you feel is the proper limits for interegation and treatment of prisoners? Since you say this is WAR, why don't you feel the Geneva Convention applies?

Since you have allready approved shooting wounded Iraqis without any check to see if they are armed or a threat, I am curious about this.

Frank
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"The luxury of not getting involved departed with the last lifeboat Skipper..."

undfun Dec 22, 2004 04:30 PM

Its not a question of ACLU credibility. The memorandums were written by FBI agents and obtained by court order directly from the administration. No one is questioning the validity of the documents.

Rodney's comments below also indicate some serious confusion about the designation of the detainees. To hysterically declare "This is war!!!" and then use your own unsupported declaration as justification for torture demonstrats a curious lack of rational thought processes

The detainees have been convicted of no crime - and apparently the US courts disagree with the Bush administration that treating people like something less than animals is A-OK. The first of the detainees to come to trail has been granted the same legal protections, legal representation that any prisoner in US custody would recieve.

We do this because (some of us) are not barbarians, because we would like the world to believe *most* of us are not barbarians, because doing less dissolves the moral high ground we (used to?) enjoy in negotiations, because torture produces notoriously poor intelligence and because we hope not torturing will reduce the liklihood our own will be tortured.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,11069-1411944,00.html

"Secret FBI memorandums, which the Bush Administration was forced to release by a court order won by the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU), reveal the disgust of FBI officials who witnessed the abuse.

They also show that violence against prisoners, including the use of snarling dogs and forcing detainees to defecate on themselves, was still an interrogation tactic months after the Abu Ghraib abuse scandal caused outrage in April.

The White House denied an allegation in one memo that President Bush had signed a “new executive order” authorising “sleep management”, stress positions, use of dogs, sensory deprivation and “yelling at subjects and prisoners with hoods on their heads”, methods forbidden for FBI agents."

Thane Dec 22, 2004 05:43 PM

Repeated references suggest. ....The email, which was obtained by the American Civil Liberties Union.

The aclu has NO credibility. You see the name aclu in something, you'd better be sure to double triple check the facts. You say Rodney has a "curious lack of rational thought process" ? I'd suggest your veiws that American soldiers should have baked prisoners a cake, patted 'em on the back, and laid down so they could shoot them are just as irrational.
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Thane

undfun Dec 22, 2004 09:56 PM

Yea, just keep repeating that - I'm sure someone (Rodney?) will come to think it’s somehow relevant to the accusations.

And what’s with the wing nuts constantly belittling the credibility of everything and everyone who opposes them? To think these tactics are assumed by the same people who listen to FOX News, Limbaugh, Hannity, etc... Amazing.

Thane Dec 23, 2004 10:15 AM

Remember, we're wingnuts. Amazing.... certainly not worth wasting your energy debating with. You're right, we're wrong, end of story.
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Thane

Thane Dec 23, 2004 05:13 PM

In case you're wondering, here are a couple reasons I don't immediately accept what comes from the ACLU as the truth:

The ACLU: Using the courts to advance their internationalist, anti-God, anti-traditional family and hate America ideals. In
communities throughout the country, the ACLU membership is fighting to expunge ALL signs of faith.

1. They asked the Virginia Supreme court to legalize cross burning on public property.

(Robert H. Bork, press release announcing release of Coercing virtue)

2. They are defending, pro-bono, the North American Man Boy Love association (NAMBLA).

("ACLUM Agrees to Represent NAMBLA in freedom of speech case"

3. The ACLU asked the judge to impose a gag order on a case of two men that murdered and sodomized a 10 year old boy. Police
found NAMBLA literature and a manual called "rape and escape" at the scene. Parents of boy sued NAMBLA for it's role in what
amounts to an accessory to murder.

( http://www.aclu-mass.org/legal/namblareinstein.html )

The link is now invalid. Gee, I wonder why they'd hide THAT ?
Thanes Place

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Thane

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