Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I've been reading some post on this but haven't got a clear answer yet.
My belly heat on the hot side inside the hide is kept between 90-95 degrees. The "air temp" is around 80-83 on the hot side. (Cool side temps are ok 80-85). Should the air temp also be 90-95 or is this just for the belly heat temp??
By the way this is for a ball python enclosure.

It sounds fine to me.
Since the snake is going to be laying on the floor then a floor temp of 90-95 would be fine even though your air temps are in the 80's

>>I've been reading some post on this but haven't got a clear answer yet.
>>My belly heat on the hot side inside the hide is kept between 90-95 degrees. The "air temp" is around 80-83 on the hot side. (Cool side temps are ok 80-85). Should the air temp also be 90-95 or is this just for the belly heat temp??
>>By the way this is for a ball python enclosure.

Sorry, I don't remember the particulars: is this the air temp in the winter? Year round?

In any event, I kept snakes on Flex-watt heat tape for years without any problems. During the winter, they curl up on the hot spot and don't move around much but seem fine.

>>My belly heat on the hot side inside the hide is kept between 90-95 degrees. The "air temp" is around 80-83 on the hot side. (Cool side temps are ok 80-85).

Are you saying the cool side air temps are warmer than the warm side air temps?

I can think of two reasons why this is ocurring but I won't get into them until you clarify that.

>>Should the air temp also be 90-95 or is this just for the belly heat temp?? By the way this is for a ball python enclosure.

The conditions you describe are pretty typical in reptile enclosures and are less than ideal. Not necessarily bad for the snake, but I do believe it's best if these variances are reduced. It's certainly safer and I believe thermoregulation studes suggest the snakes will prefer it.

Sorry to beat this dead horse, but the problem here is a lack of thermal mass. When radiant floor heat is used in a home you don't see these variances between surface-floor temps and air temps. The reason is they take advantage of thermal mass.

We should try to do the same with reptiles.
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Current snakes:

0.2 Gonyosoma oxycephala - (Silver/Yellow)

3.3 Gonyosoma oxycephala - (Green)

2.1 Gonyosoma janseni - (Black)

3.3 Gonyosoma janseni - (Black & Tan)

The belly heat on the hot side is kept at 90-95 and the air temp all over the cage is usually 80-85. I hope that helps.

>>The belly heat on the hot side is kept at 90-95 and the air temp all over the cage is usually 80-85. I hope that helps.

But it still sounds like the air temp when you measured it was a bit warmer on the cool side, correct?

This is most likely due to a combination of two factors. Most likely is that the water bowl is either partially on or very close to the under-tank heat source.

Another is that you measured the temps with the snake in the cage. Heavy bodied snakes basically turn themselves into little radiators so it could have recently moved off of the heat source.

This is why temperatures in cages with relatively little volume and heavy-bodied snakes should be taken when the snake is not in the cage. Believe it or not, a snake can change the thermal profile of a cage, especially heavy ball pythons in tight plastic boxes. It is a mistake to have the cage occupant the biggest contributor to thermal mass, IMO.
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Current snakes:

0.2 Gonyosoma oxycephala - (Silver/Yellow)

3.3 Gonyosoma oxycephala - (Green)

2.1 Gonyosoma janseni - (Black)

3.3 Gonyosoma janseni - (Black & Tan)

I forgot to make another point. In the typical ball python breeder setup it's very difficult to avoid having large temperature variances between the surface floor heat and the air temperature at the warm end.

If one provided enough thermal mass to heat the air at the warm end it would likely also heat the air at the cool end, therby decreasing or even eliminating the thermal gradiant.

So in a shallow and relatively tight sweater-box setup - the typical ball python breeder setup - thermal gradiants and floor/air differentials are at direct odds with each other. One needs to take care not to push it too far in either direction.

Super hot floor temps and relatively cool air temps are less than ideal from a husbandry perspective and are more of a fire/overheating hazzard.

On the other hand, if you reduce this too much then you tend to lose your thermal gradiant. We all need to find a happy medium and it's not something that can be predicted with a formula.

You can avoid this with cages and radiant heat panels, but that's not always practical.
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Current snakes:

0.2 Gonyosoma oxycephala - (Silver/Yellow)

3.3 Gonyosoma oxycephala - (Green)

2.1 Gonyosoma janseni - (Black)

3.3 Gonyosoma janseni - (Black & Tan)

If your snake is that warm under one area and that cool every where else than the gradient is too far off. Whenthe snake is warm underneath it's cold on top. If you bring up the air temps slightly then everything else will fall in line.

QUESTION: Is your ball having problems eating or defecating. Is it staying strictly in one spot.

If it is moving around the cage and eating and defecating, and not spending extremely long periods of time in one spot(when not going through shed) Then I would say there really is not a PROBLEM but I would suggest raising the air temps slightly all the same.

Hope that helps and answers a few of the many wusetoins from the past few days.

Chris

He has been eating regularly, but hasn't defacated lately. The first 2 times he ate he would go about 6 days after he ate.
I have only been having the low temp problem lately since it has been colder outside (even though I keep my thermostat for my place at 74) tonight when I came home the belly temp in his hide was 93 but the air temp on the hot side was 80 and air temp on the cold side was 78 which I know is too cold. I've checked into radiant heat panels from promist.
So what should the air temp be on the hot side? Is around 80 ok??

80-85 for air temps will be just right. Generally speaking the air temp will not have large swings although the "hot" side will be slightly warmer just from convection.

In meantime it doesn't sound like you are having any husbandry problems. In my experience there is no such thing as regularity in my snakes as an example my corn will go 1-2 days later or 1-2 weeks later some depends on size of food and activity. My ball any where from 1-3 weeks. My juvie blood hasn't gone in a month or so and eats like pig. According to several sources including PROEXOTICS they just wait to pop like a cork. So I wouldn't worry too much about it. Try the light from the side or hanging from above it's less expensive and easier to do considering yur cage setup. With the right wattage it will work great for you. I usually go through a couple of wattages, exchanging them for higher or lower depending on time of year etc. untill I get things comfy.

Let me know if this helps
Chris

Chris thanks for the info!
Recently since it has been colder the temps have been dropping down to as low as 88 on the cool side and 89 on the hot. Is this too cool or is it still ok?

those are fine temps for the ambiant air and as long as you have the heat pad with the belly temp everything is in line. Just watch for the abnormal behavior paterns I discussed earlier, and react to those needs.

any thing else just ask

chris

Thanks again Chris, you have been a huge help!!