Reptile & Amphibian Forums

A draft....is insane.

A draft to go to a war that was PRE-EMPTIVE and was based on making profit for companies such as Halliburton and Becktel?
And building STRATEGIC MILITARY bases in the Mideast, so as to help protect "Ally" Israel....

You need look no farther than your own President to place blame for this war, and on the "Real" President(s): Dick Cheney and George Bush Sr. Then to the American people for being STUPID enough to not critically think things through, for them believing that the MEDIA that they all watch DAILY and gobble up like so many lingering bits of rotting GARBAGE at a landfill, that this same Media LIED to them and DISTORTED the truth.

And EVEN when the truth was revealed...like so many Lemmings diving over a cliff, their "Patriotism" didnt allow them to question their "Fearless Leader(s)....

That would be wrong..in a time of war..in a time of fear

The U.S. Public believed their Leaders......

Believed their New Stations and Radios Stations......

Believed the Newspapers and the Tabloids, all controlled
by corporate interests.....

And finally....believed in the "FEAR" that was injected into this country...the mass hysteria that allowed us to go from Yellow alert to Orange alert and back down again in the course of a day........

And thats JUST what the administration wanted. SCARED people believe they need protection...and they have gotten it, at the cost of their very own freedoms and privacy....but protection from WHAT?

And then a DRAFT is initiated.. At first people will BALK, as some of the folks here have...THEN worthy commentators(You know the ones we have all grown to TRUST and LOVE(*sic*)...will say that Bush COULDNT have foreseen this coming, that there was no way he could have possibly projected this need....that it could happen to anyone in his position.....
And then the PUBLIC will rationalize it, with help from the media, government and Bush himself.

And then its on............

*REMEMBER* this however....BUSH ***PROMISED* that there wouldnt be a draft during his tenure as President of the Untied States.

Are you stupid enough to believe this lie as you may have believed all the others?
At what point do we as American citzens say "enough is enough" and realize that we ARENT driving the car, we are secured firmly in the TRUNK and the thing is going over a steep cliff?

Or.....do we still hold onto to the meat and potatoes theory that there are "Good Guys" and "Bad Guys?" and that somehow this Nation, through its acts...through its policies(Yes this included Clintos era too, he sucked) are somehow GOOD GUYS? That what we are doing IS A GOOD THING?

Time for Coffee boys and girls...smell the fresh aroma....

And please dont make it DECAFF

We have been asleep long enough..

Ya' think?

Sincerely,

Fred Albury

I just really hope you are wrong Fred.

I have a 17 yr old son, and If he gets drafted, I'm getting plastic surgery to look younger, and I'm swiping his birth certificate and I'm going in his place.

Mr. Bush, It's easy to say "we have to expect a certain amount of casualties" when it ain't your kid.

We are in a nasty mess and there are too many egos and legacies wrapped up in this to walk away from it. There doesn't seem to be a good way out. I'm too young to remember Vietnam, but it sure is looking parallel. We lost that one you say?

did we "win" this one?

Both my older Brothers were in NAM..

They both carry the psycholgical and physical scars of it to this day. They Volunteered.

Did we "Win" in Nam?

No......The proof is that we are now in IRAQ.
Putting U.S. troops at risk needlessly. In what seems like a never ending war. Iran and Syria next?

For your sons sake, and the sons and daughters of many people that went into this military because they felt they didnt have viable economic options...because they believed it could be a avenue, perhaps the only avenue to get a college education....or because they came from backgrounds with proud traditions of serving in the U.S. Military......
I sincerely hope that there isnt a draft.

On the other hand....if a draft IS ISSUED. Then perhaps those in society that are truly priviliged, the CEO's and heads of corporations that are vested in this QUAGMIRE will balk because THEIR sons and daughters will be put at risk...not voluntarily....but through a draft. Maybe then the "price" of this war will become to much for the public to bear....

Or maybe they will get ***DEFERRMENTS****

LIKE CHENEY DID..............

LIKE CLINTON DID............

AND YES LIKE BUSH DID(Air National Guard type deferrment)

And then it will be left to the sons and daughters of people that dont have this kind of pull. As it always has been. The common folks, poor and middle class alike....

**Coffee time...No Decaf please, and no sugar either, Ill take mine Black.........**

Sincerely,

Fredrick Albury

I'm 24 with a few friends that are and have been to Iraq. I myself do not see a draft forming, its still too early in the war to jump to that conclusion. Also, we have not had enough casualties there to drive a demand for soldiers. Its people like you that start these types of rumors and cause that 'FEAR' you are talking about.

War is war, nothing pretty about it. Solders see stuff they never wanted or should have. But, you need to remember there are countries out there that once you are 18 your a solder. These kids have no choice in the matter, here we have the option to join.

I'm not saying I like the idea of a draft, but if comes to that point, why run? You've had the choice to join since the age of 18, you choose not to, now they need your help. Are you the type who walks away from someone who just got mugged? or are you the type to run after the guy who did it?

I'm 22 and also have enlisted friends who are serving in Iraq. To say its too early to make that call is, in my opinion, a defeatest way of looking at the problem.

I pointed out in an earlier thread that we will have officially cycled through our Guard and Reserves troops by the end of 2005.

Meanwhile, the National Guard and Army Reserves are both seeing a decline in new recruits. Violence is worsening. Reported #s of insurgents is increasing. Iraqis who once believed we were there to help them are losing faith as their friends and families are being killed; Iraqi civilian deaths are over 100,000 at this point. Members of the "Coalition of the Willing" are backing out. Contractors involved in reconstruction are backing out.

Also, if you were to look at the casualties from the first 2 years of Viet Nam and you were to contrast it with the casualties from the first 2 years in Iraq, the Iraq numbers are WAY worse.

So unless things drastically change for the better, by the end of 2005, it appears that, as a matter of necessity, there will be a draft.

The real question is: Are you the type of guy to try to stop a mugging, or are you a guy that wants to join in with the mugger?

I'll protest, and then I'll kick and scream while they drag me to jail, but I won't fight in a war that I don't believe in.

In the first 2 years of Viet Nam there were over 2000 deaths, Iraq is only a little over 1000. Thats a big difference! When it come to the amount of violence, are you going by the news or from soldiers who have come back?

I have been told, by a soldier who was right no the middle of everything, that most of the stuff you see and hear on the news never happened the way they said. He was pissed when he saw how it was being shown. Everyone must remember how this country was formed, by a war. Amazing how everyone forgets these things, this country was built on the rights of all humans. That above all else, is why we are there. The people of Iraq were being tortured, gassed, shot and much more. I am in favor of helping those citizens, but the fact is, that country was run by rebels who do not want to give it up.

If this was happening here, would you still run, kick and scream, or would you be a man/woman that is willing to die for this idea called freedom? I would, and anyone with any heart would.

I answered that call...unlike the majority who post here. I made the choice to offer (if necessary) my life for the freedom of THIS (USA) COUNTRY.

I would not offer it for a country who does not want what we offer enough for the people living in it to do whatever they can to help drive out the rebels.

The plain truth is...That the rebels could not survive if we did have that willing cooperation from the people of Iraq. If they really wanted to, they would inform on all activities instead of offering shelter and silent support for the Rebel fighters.

That we don't (except in the government we created there) means that after two years we are still nothing more than invaders in the eyes of the people of Iraq.

Frank
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"The luxury of not getting involved departed with the last lifeboat Skipper..."

I do agree with Frank, we are the invaders now. To go along with what I said before, about the human rights, we removed the problem from power. Now they will most likely have a civil war, until they can figure out whats next. Will we still be there then, maybe.

This would be funny if it weren't so sad:

During the Viet Nam war the government was having trouble getting enough human cannon fodder on the front lines so they changed the rules for exemption. Suddenly it wasn't enough to just be married to avoid the draft, you had to have children.

Dick Cheney's first child was born 9 months 6 days after the announcement.

Almost as pathetic as Bush's "service".

(me)Well said for the most part.

(fred)A draft....is insane. A draft to go to a war that was PRE-EMPTIVE and was based on making profit for companies such as Halliburton and Becktel? And building STRATEGIC MILITARY bases in the Mideast, so as to help protect "Ally" Israel....

(me)Not sure I buy this part (aside from a draft being insane).

(fred).....for them believing that the MEDIA that they all watch DAILY and gobble up like so many lingering bits of rotting GARBAGE at a landfill, that this same Media LIED to them and DISTORTED the truth.

(me)Yes, most of what we're fed by the media IS rotting garbage We can thank a LOT of this to politically correct doublespeak. We shouldn't be told the whole, unedited nasty truth, it might upset us.

(fred)And EVEN when the truth was revealed...like so many Lemmings diving over a cliff, their "Patriotism" didnt allow them to question their "Fearless Leader(s)....

(me)I don't think we know the whole truth YET. Remember, we're dealing with mealy mouthed bureaucrats. It'll take YEARS for them (or us) to reveal all the facts. This puts us ALL in the position of being required to stay patient. I don't know what else we can do. There ARE many different alternative news sources on the WWW now though, best we can do is research all sides OURSELVES.

(fred)And then a DRAFT is initiated.. At first people will BALK, as some of the folks here have...THEN worthy commentators(You know the ones we have all grown to TRUST and LOVE(*sic*)...will say that Bush COULDNT have foreseen this coming, that there was no way he could have possibly projected this need....that it could happen to anyone in his position..... And then the PUBLIC will rationalize it, with help from the media, government and Bush himself.
*REMEMBER* this however....BUSH ***PROMISED* that there wouldnt be a draft during his tenure as President of the Untied States.

(me)C'mon now, love and trust ? I think a LOT of citizens are becoming aware of the P.C. doublespeak tripe the mainstream media feeds us. I hope I'm right, I don't see a draft coming. This IS becoming the Untied States though (I like that one ), so no telling WHATS coming down the road.

(fred)Are you stupid enough to believe this lie as you may have believed all the others ? At what point do we as American citzens say "enough is enough" and realize that we ARENT driving the car, we are secured firmly in the TRUNK and the thing is going over a steep cliff ?

(me)I hope we DO wake up someday soon. I want to hear some ideas you have to put US back in the drivers seat.

(fred)Or.....do we still hold onto to the meat and potatoes theory that there are "Good Guys" and "Bad Guys?" and that somehow this Nation, through its acts...through its policies(Yes this included Clintos era too, he sucked) are somehow GOOD GUYS? That what we are doing IS A GOOD THING? Time for Coffee boys and girls...smell the fresh aroma.... And please dont make it DECAFF We have been asleep long enough..

(me)The way what you've written reads, YOU'VE had plenty of coffee I'm gonna go get ME some.

Thanes Place

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Thane

I was touched by the irony of this election compared to one long ago...

Lyndon Johnson campaigned with the idea that Barry Goldwater (his opponent) was going to escalate the war in "Nam" and would use nukes. The public (who were afraid of what Goldwater was going to do) elected Johnson who went on to escalate the war more than any other president-to insure Democracy would be established despite a strong partisan resistance..

Bush campaigned with the idea that Kerry would be dangerous to our national security and bad for our war effort in Iraq. The public (afraid of what Kerry would do) reelected Bush who is determined to do everything he can to insure Democracy is established despite strong partisan resistance.

Sound familiar anyone?????

Frank
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"The luxury of not getting involved departed with the last lifeboat Skipper..."

I've said it before (I'm sure everyones sick of hearing it). It really bums me out (I'd use other language) that this election didn't have a better candidate to run against shrub. Not that it would make much difference, both political parties are so much alike it's hard to tell 'em apart today. They both talk different but DO exactly the same thing.
Thanes Place

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Thane

Though I may disage with what Shane says many times over, I **TOTALLY** agree with him here....BOTh parties suck. But..BUSH sucks most of all..............

Republican Party and the Democratic Party

*Both TOTALLY owned and beholden to big business Corporations*

*Both composed of individuals tha come from priviliged backgrounds, for the most part

AND OF COURSE:

BOTH **Consumate lieing sacks of Elephant detritus**

Now......time to sharpen my axe..I hear that "old Growth" National Forests are going to be opened up for loggers.

(*JOKE*)

Fred