Reptile & Amphibian Forums

A ball python I ordered (50% poss. het. albino female) was shipped out on Wed. the 22nd using UPS next day air. Unfortunately due to adverse weather conditions her shipment was delayed by one day. She finally arrived this evening and she was dead. Both 40 hour heat packs were still quite warm to the touch and the box was padded with newspaper. However, the 3.5 inch wide by 2 inch DEEP deli cup that contained her had no padding whatsoever in it. It was a baby ball python so there was a lot of space in that cup. The shipper said that he couldn't gaurantee live arrival because it took too long. She obviously got jumbled around a lot and without padding in the cup there was nothing to absorb the shock but her poor little body. I believe that if there had been some kind of padding in it that she would have arrived alive, even after two days because the heat packs were still working. So I guess I have a dilema. What do you think? Is the shipper at fault? I realize it was not the best week to ship to Ohio. But I couldn't of known that an ice storm would knock out electricity all over the state and delay her shipment. Really my point is that it doesn't appear that she was shipped correctly. Shouldn't there have been padding in a deli cup, especially since the choosen size was rather large for the snake (IMO)?

everything else looked good

Sorry for your loss, I doubt that getting knocked around with no padding in the deli cup had much to do with it, especially if there was plenty of padding inside the box, though there still should have been some kind of padding in the cup. If the heat packs were still quite warm, is it possible that it got too hot for her? Heat packs can go over 150 degrees easily. They should have been taped to the sides or top of the box with plenty of padding between so they couldn't come in contact with the deli cup. Also there should have been airholes punched in the box... Heatpacks heat by a form of slow combustion, they can suck up a lot of oxygen. Winter shipping can sometimes be tricky.

Mark

>>A ball python I ordered (50% poss. het. albino female) was shipped out on Wed. the 22nd using UPS next day air. Unfortunately due to adverse weather conditions her shipment was delayed by one day. She finally arrived this evening and she was dead. Both 40 hour heat packs were still quite warm to the touch and the box was padded with newspaper. However, the 3.5 inch wide by 2 inch DEEP deli cup that contained her had no padding whatsoever in it. It was a baby ball python so there was a lot of space in that cup. The shipper said that he couldn't gaurantee live arrival because it took too long. She obviously got jumbled around a lot and without padding in the cup there was nothing to absorb the shock but her poor little body. I believe that if there had been some kind of padding in it that she would have arrived alive, even after two days because the heat packs were still working. So I guess I have a dilema. What do you think? Is the shipper at fault? I realize it was not the best week to ship to Ohio. But I couldn't of known that an ice storm would knock out electricity all over the state and delay her shipment. Really my point is that it doesn't appear that she was shipped correctly. Shouldn't there have been padding in a deli cup, especially since the choosen size was rather large for the snake (IMO)?

It all depends on the breeder's policies. These things should be understood before you purchase an animal. I guarantee live arrival... that being said, weather conditions, final destination, and holidays influence when and how I ship. If I decide to ship through the Airlines for whatever reason (like cold weather), but a customer insists on UPS then I do not take responsibility for any mishaps.

Another thing to consider is overheating. Where you place the heat pack/s makes a huge difference. A deli cup placed directly on top of a heat pack can get pretty warm. Also, just because it's cold does not mean that the box will always be exposed to cold weather. That box may have sat in a warm storage area for a period of time and two heat packs could have made that box really warm.

Just some thoughts...

Sorry for the baby ball python and your loss.

Oz
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OZZYBOIDS

Hi There,

I'm so sorry about your animal. Unfortunately, many times I have had to learn things about animals through mistakes I have made, so I can relate to how hard it can be.

Hindsight is always 20/20, but I do hope you take a few things away from this sad situation.

First, don't ship an animal the week before Christmas, when more packages are being shipped than any other time of the year.

Also, don't ship when it's extremely cold (or hot) or when there is severe weather brewing. I'm in Ohio too, we knew this storm was on its way on Monday. By Wed the storm was in progress.

Last, don't depend on the shipper to watch the weather and do what is best for your animal. You need to be proactive and determine for yourself when it is safe to ship. That might mean waiting a week or a month or two months in the winter.

My best,

Christy

hard to say

styrofoam lined box....warm enough......big enough box to have air for trip.......?

.......baby fit into an 8 ounce deli-cup?........

my baby balls fill a 6 3/4 inch deli cup(*2 inch high)..... and some might not even fit well into that......maybe not a captive?.....maybe not a 50% er'.......?.....hard to say....

.......

........call / email the person you got it from......tell them you got a dead snake...and need a new one.........
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I accept full responsibility for choosing a very bad shipping date and my lack of proper research on the weather. I assumed that the snake would arrive just fine (like all the others I have ever ordered) and I greatly regret it. This is just further evidense that people should not risk shipping a live animal during the holidays, no matter what. I have learned a hard and expensive lesson.

I don't really consider you fully responsible. If the breeder/shipper was on top of their game, they would have check weather patterns also. I wouldn't ship anything within 2 weeks of the holidays. It's as much their fault as it is yours.......unless you insisted on them shipping when they didn't want to.

Brandon Osborne

Here is my opinion

You got screwed

That’s it

This is the reason I drive as far as I have to, to inspect and pick up any animal I purchase.

I wish it didn't have to be that way, but there are too many bad deals that go down.

Why are they not responsibile to use common sense as well??
If they sell snakes regularly they should know better.

I feel they should at least meet you half way on a replacement.

I know people who received full replacements of much higher value animals from reputable breeders, under lesser circumstances.

Again, just my opinion
TomChambers

Why wasn't live arrival guaranteed? Furthermore, who ships snakes the week before xmas? Honestly? I do not know of one single dealer (that I've purchased from) that has ever shipped out snakes the week before Christmas. This is simply due to the fact that gifts and packages flood all the major delivery companies, like UPS, FedEx, etc, AND there is simply no telling when a package may arrive during this time of year. I ordered a DVD on ebay and it is overdue by several days due to carrier delays. I cannot imagine a live animal getting shipped now... its just wrong.

FYI, I have always received snakes with a paper towl or shredded newspaper INSIDE the little deli cup PLUS, there has always been shredded newspaper in the box to hopefully absorb some shock due to mishandling of packages.

Also, what was the location of the heatpacks in relation to the animal. If the heatpacks were very close, it could have cooked the snake b/c some heatpacks get VERY hot. On the other hand, if the heatpacks were not near the snake, it could have been exposed it to colder temps during shipping, which can be just as harmful. Effective placement of heatpacks can make a world of difference.

Its really hard to tell the full story from your comments but from what I assume so far, it seems to be the shippers fault entirely. IMO based on your comments, you really got screwed.
Once again, I am assuming alot but either way, it is still extremely unacceptable for anyone to ship an animal if they do not know what they're doing and to ship an animal 3 days before xmas...they obviously didn't know what they were doing. Heck, someone could start a business of only selling and shipping snakes around major holidays if this kind of practice were acceptable. I feel for you and more importantly, the poor little snake.

Sorry about your loss and I hope you change your mind about accepting responsibility for receiving a dead snake.

Why wasn't live arrival guaranteed? Furthermore, who ships snakes the week before xmas? Honestly? I do not know of one single dealer (that I've purchased from) that has ever shipped out snakes the week before Christmas. This is simply due to the fact that gifts and packages flood all the major delivery companies, like UPS, FedEx, etc, AND there is simply no telling when a package may arrive during this time of year. I ordered a DVD on ebay and it is overdue by several days due to carrier delays. I cannot imagine a live animal getting shipped now... its just wrong.

FYI, I have always received snakes with a paper towl or shredded newspaper INSIDE the little deli cup PLUS, there has always been shredded newspaper in the box to hopefully absorb some shock due to mishandling of packages.

Also, what was the location of the heatpacks in relation to the animal. If the heatpacks were very close, it could have cooked the snake b/c some heatpacks get VERY hot. On the other hand, if the heatpacks were not near the snake, it could have been exposed it to colder temps during shipping, which can be just as harmful. Effective placement of heatpacks can make a world of difference.

Its really hard to tell the full story from your comments but from what I assume so far, it seems to be the shippers fault entirely. IMO based on your comments, you really got screwed.
Once again, I am assuming alot but either way, it is still extremely unacceptable for anyone to ship an animal if they do not know what they're doing and to ship an animal 3 days before xmas...they obviously didn't know what they were doing. Heck, someone could start a business of only selling and shipping snakes around major holidays if this kind of practice were acceptable. I feel for you and more importantly, the poor little snake.

Sorry about your loss and I hope you change your mind about accepting responsibility for receiving a dead snake.
~Jason

I buy as many snakes as I sell and ship. At least that is what my wife says.
When I make a sell, I always offer to ship the animals Delta with a live gurantee. Not once, in the past six months, has anyone wanted Delta shipping. Everyone wanted the animals to be shipped to their house.
I told them, like you read in everyone elses ads, NO guarntee with ground services. That is what UPS, FedEX, and Airborne (DHL) are called, GROUND SERVICES.
I know, they use planes, to get packages from here to there, but they are still called Ground Services.
If something happens, none of these carriers will stand behind the problem. Why? Cause they don't accept live animals!
Delta, you can insure each package sent thru them. But most people don't want to drive to the Airport to pick up a box.

I would like to rely one small story.
Last year, I had a female Green Rat Snake for sale. I placed an ad online and sold her fairly fast. Payment was sent and recieved in a timely manner. The gentleman requested that I ship the snake the following day. I explained the weather was not suited for shipping. I told him I would ship as soon as the weather would allow. He said that was not acceptable, and that I had to ship the following day. I refused. He demaned I ship!
I told him if I shipped, and the animal died during shipping, he would hold me accountable. I told him the sell was not that important, and returned his money.
I sold the snake the following week, and was allowed to ship her during better weather conditions.
To hold a shipper responsiable depends on if he allows his self to be. I, as a seller, makes the rules. Not the buyer.
If he/she persises, I make them email me with a waiver of all rights. And so far, not one person wanted to wavie their rights.
I am not in the business of killing animals . No sale is worth the death of an animal.
I recieved a UPS shipment on Thursday from PA. All arrived alive and in good condition. I recieved a Detla Dash Shipment on Friday from FL, again, everything was recived in good order.
Was it a mistake to ship on a Holiday weekend? I don't think so. It is all about communication. We worked all the details out, was in contact with both UPS and Delta. Everything worked smoothly on both ends.

n/p