Reptile & Amphibian Forums

At what stage of development are follicles when the pre ovulatory shed occurs? Beginnings, end, middle, ???... How long before the pre ovulatory shed are follicles palpable?

I know a number of breeders use ultrasound, if any of you are reading this how long before the pre ov shed are follicle seen on the ultrasound?

Thanks,
George Knaack
GLK HERP

Note: Someone with ultrasound experience may know a lot better than I...

This can be a little tricky. It is easy to identify the 'Post
Ovulation' shed. Step 1) Notice ovulation. Step 2) wait
approximately 3 weeks for for shed. Done.
Then I guess you could measure your follicles through touch (not
very accurate, but you can usually count them by hand at that
point), or use an ultrasound if you have one.

Identifying the 'Pre Ovulation' shed, for me, is hard to do since
they will possibly shed a couple of times before ovulating. How
can you tell which one is the shed just prior to ovulation without
first seeing ovulation? Perhaps that is exactly what you are
trying to figure out (let us know)...namely: Is there a repeatable
sequence of growth of the follicles such that you could palpate
them after each shed to determine if ovulation is 'coming soon'.
I'm not entirely sure, but I would guess that this wouldn't be
very reliable since I think the time can vary a LOT between
shed -> ovulation time.

Regarding the question of 'when can I feel follicles during
palpation'...I find that you can often detect small follicles
months before ovulation. But even these follicles seem to grow
at different 'rates' with different females (probably depending
on a lot on her physical pre-conditioning for breeding).

For me, the happy day is when I notice ovulation. Only then am
I fairly sure that I will see a clutch of eggs within 50 days
( /- a week). Between their post ovulation shed and egg laying,
you can usually count the number of eggs that are in there. With
practice/experience, you can even detect which eggs are slugs (smaller)
and which are likely (hopefully) fertile (or at least 'regular'
sized).

Best of luck!
Chris Simone

You hit the nail on the head, that is exactly what I'm looking for:

"can you tell which one is the shed just prior to ovulation without first seeing ovulation?"

I have roughly 20 females that have bred so far and a number of them seem to be in different stages of follicle maturation. I'm just trying to see if there is a good way to estimate the date of ovulation from follicle growth. I figured if follicles were always at a certain stage of development when the pre ovulatory shed occurred it might be easier to get an idea.

Also at what stage of follicle development do you stop introducing a male. I know it won't hurt anything to keep breeding up to ovulation, but if the male can be separated earlier than he can be bred to more females. I talked to one of the breeders with an ultrasound and they stopped introducing males when the follicles are around dime size. Of course with the ultrasound they get a head start by introducing right when follicles first develop so by the time they are dime sized multiple matings have probably occurred. Is there some similar formula used when just palpating follicles???

Don't know if this exactly makes sense, I know what I'm trying to get at just don't know how to word it...

Thanks again,
George

I don't think that palpating is reliable enough for determining
when to stop introducing the males (at least for me). Personally,
I will continue cycling a male through until I see ovulation.
I think the shortest window between breeding and ovulation
where that particular breeding actually fertilized the ova is
probably about 3 weeks prior to ovulation.

It is widely believed that male activity on a female will
cause a willing and able female to start developing follicles
even if she hasn't actually been bred. Therefore, the follicles
can develop without a male having 'completed the act'. If you
take your male away too soon (ie getting close to ovulation),
you may find that the female has nothing inside to fertilize
her ova. Even though the follicles were ready to be fertilized,
there was no juice ready to get the job done.

I'm not 100% sure, but even with an ultrasound you cannot tell
if the ova have been fertilized (until way after ovulation).

Good luck!
Chris Simone

Most of my females shed about 2 months before ovulation. With that said, I can usually feel quarter sized follicles about a month before ovulation. Once they are this size, I rarely re-introduce a male. I feel his job is done. She will ovulate, lay eggs, and everything is said and done...

Jason

At what point of follicle development do people stop introducing males?

Thanks again,
George