Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hi guys, I know Rob Carmichal (sorry if I spelled your name wrong Rob) promotes the use of full spectrum bulbs and I am sure others do also. My question is what type of bulb do you buy? There are 2.0, 5.0, 7.0 and a lot of them don't mention the term "full spectrum" but provide UVA and UVB like the full spectrums do. Some of them don't even list snakes on their animal list, only lizards, turtles, tortoises, etc. I bought a Zoo Med "Repti-Sun 2.0". It was the ONLY one there, out of about 20 different ones, that stated it was for snakes. What does everyone else use? Rob, which ones do you use? I know you put that on here before but I do not remember.

I also was wondering if it was bad to put an Indigo in a cage that is too big. I have a year old male and he is over 32". I need to get him in a bigger cage but I wasn't sure if I could move up pretty big now for cost reasons or I would have to gradually build him up as he grows. I have a 55gal tank that is 4 ft. long. I was wondering if I could put him right in that now and build him a bigger one by next year to keep him in for good. What do ya think? He is eating well and active. He still will jet for the nearest hide when I walk up to his cage but he is calm when I get him out. Well, after the initial huffing and tail shake. Hey, thanks for all your thoughts and suggestions.

Greg
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Gregory S. Hake

Greg,

I have never used broad spectrum bulbs on my Eastern Indigos. They seem to have not suffered any dire consequences because of this lack of u.v. exposure. So I cant comment on what bulbs to use,Rob has much more experience on this. Much more.

As far as useing cages that are fairly large for the snake involved, it has been MY experince that Eastern Indigos seem to thrive in cages that arent so excessively big that they become nervous from haveing such a large area in which to traverse. I've noticed that even with appropriate sized hideboxes present, if the cage is to big, the snake seems to noticably"race" back and forth in the cage. All this movement also burns calories, another consideration in raising one of these eating machines.
I tend to raise them up in cages that are roomy but not excesively large, by the time they hit adult hood they go into either a 4 ft Vision cage or a 6 ft Vision cage. I have also used rubbermaid slideboxes(sweaterbox) with good results but horrendous cleanup work. I recommend moveing them up in cage size in increments, so that they arent maintained in a really large cage while still relatively small.

On the other side, I have heard it recommended that by putting them in larger cage they can remain more active, develop better muscle tone, and display more natural behaviours. I can see that this also would make sense.

Best of luck to you with your Indigo, hope Rob comes on here to answer the U.V. question

*cheers*

Fred Albury

Good to see you poking your head in!
I don't have anything to add to the lighting discussion but, just to stay on topic i'll add that my yearling female took food from my hands for the first time ever lastnight & didn't even take a chunk out of me!

Eric

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YOur advice is rock solid and even though I offered a slightly different point of view, I think that the advice you gave would probably be a better strategy for most indigos. I really think that indigos will do just fine without uv exposure and as I mentioned, my indigos at home are really not subjected to uv exposure other than the one ceiling fixture I have (but that is more for my benefit that anything). Good to have you back giving your excellent advice.

I've used some of the Zoomed ReptiSun bulbs but never with snakes. I've never used any full spectrum lighting on any of my snakes.
I use the 5.0 on my red tegus and I used to use it with bearded dragons back when I was working with them. The 5.0 has the highest UVA / UVB levels and is really good for diurnal lizards that are kept indoors. Seems like it might be a little overkill for snakes though.
My wife has a few mantella frogs and we use the 2.0 with them. It seems to be for reptiles and amphibians that have less need for high levels of UVA/UVB. Zoomed promotes this bulb as being the best for visually observing your herps (I think they refer to it as "color rendering index". They claim it brings out the best colors in your herp. I've never noticed much of a difference.
It will be interesting to hear Rob's take on this. I've never personally seen the need for it with snakes but I guess if any snake would benefit from it, a strictly diurnal snake like an indigo would.
Chris

I use full spectrum bulbs in various manners. For my couperi, that I keep and breed at home, I simply use Vita-Lits (I am old timer) fluorescents on the ceiling of my snake room; it just gives a little extra quality light in addition to the windows in the room (but it really has very little physiological effects on my snakes' overall health...in my opinion). At the wildlife center where I serve as director/curator, we do use full spectrum bulbs (once again, mostly vita-lites) inside most of the cages; including our couperi display. So, in my opinion, these bulbs, for indigos, are really more for aesthetic purposes and these snakes can do just fine on just normal, ambient room light. To me, temperatures and humidity levels are much more important...in addition to ample space. But, who knows, there are probably some very subtle benefits in using full spectrum as I have enjoyed a decent amount of success in keeping/breeding this species (and many others - right now, I am also working with gila monsters, olive pythons, black tree monitors, timber rattlers and massasaugas). Personally, you can't go wrong with the addition of a full spectrum uv lamp (or a halagen lamp such as a power sun which we have had EXCELLENT success with...but just make sure you prevent temps from getting too warm with couperi). I heat most of my reptile enclosures with Pro Product Radiant Heat Panels so the addition of a full spectrum light source works well for me.

In terms of housing, at 32" a 55 gallon tank will be fine for a little while until you are ready to move the snake into its permanent cage. I don't think you can give these snakes too much room so the bigger the better as long as you provide plenty of tight hide areas. If you are ready to put the snake into its permanent cage (you didn't mention sizes, but I will assume you are thinking of something in the neighborhood of 6' x 3'), your snake will be much better off. These are active snakes if given the opportunities.

Hope this helps. If you need any additional info just let me know.

Rob Carmichael

Thanks for all of the advice. Rob, I was thinking exactly 6' X 3' for the permanant cage. Once again, thanks to EVERYONE for all of the advice.
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Gregory S. Hake

I have always been under the (possibly incorrect) assumption that the requirement for UV supplementation is related to the animal's native proximity to the equator. Hence, I would think that UV supplementation for an Eastern's sake would certainly do the snake no harm, and likely some good. I suspect that the mechanism which converts UV to a vitamin supplement, if you will, is not as highly developed in Easterns as in some other reptile genae and/or species.

I'd love to hear the truth from an expert on such things - I may be way off base and tacitly giving advice I don't mean to, but - seems logical to me!

Landon