Reptile & Amphibian Forums

My neighbor bought a snow from Petco and they told her to use that red bark as a substrate.. is this ok for babys or adults for that matter? Also they told her to feed it worms untill it shed for the first time... it has visible digesting food in 3 spots so I know they are feeding it but at the tail it's like there is nothing but skin and bone.... it died last night I believe... I amy be mistaken but doesn't a baby need small pinkies to have a source of calcium for bone growth? Also I called the store and was informed the guy that gave all this advice is now fired and they are replacing the snake so I just want to be sure i am right about whatcaused the death of this snake... They said they are feeding the babies crickets.... but they are high in phospherous which blocks calcium absorbtion or is this not true with these guys? Then she said well we are dusting the crix... I'm not real into corns so wanted to get some sound advice.. the cage had a bowl of water and it was very clean.... I can't see anything other than the fod they said to feed it that would have donme this unless it ingested a pice of the bark and became blocked.... What do you guys think?

Thanks,
Robert
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Don't choose your friends by show,
feathers float but perils lay low!

>>My neighbor bought a snow from Petco and they told her to use that red bark as a substrate.. is this ok for babys or adults for that matter? Also they told her to feed it worms untill it shed for the first time... it has visible digesting food in 3 spots so I know they are feeding it but at the tail it's like there is nothing but skin and bone.... it died last night I believe... I amy be mistaken but doesn't a baby need small pinkies to have a source of calcium for bone growth? Also I called the store and was informed the guy that gave all this advice is now fired and they are replacing the snake so I just want to be sure i am right about whatcaused the death of this snake... They said they are feeding the babies crickets.... but they are high in phospherous which blocks calcium absorbtion or is this not true with these guys? Then she said well we are dusting the crix... I'm not real into corns so wanted to get some sound advice.. the cage had a bowl of water and it was very clean.... I can't see anything other than the fod they said to feed it that would have donme this unless it ingested a pice of the bark and became blocked.... What do you guys think?
>>
>>Thanks,
>>Robert
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There might be a few out there that say crickets are ok for hatchlings...they are wrong.
They need to be fed pinkies.
I really don't recommend the repti bark either. Maybe for older snakes but I don't think it is a good idea for hatchlings.
Paper towels, newspaper and aspen shavings are the three I would recommend for hatchlings.
I personally use aspen shavings for all of my snakes.
The corn snake needs a set-up witch includes a heat pad or under tank heater under one end of the tank.
There needs to be a hide on that end of the tank and a hide on the cool end of the tank. There needs to be a water bowl large enough for the snake to curl up in if it so desires. A branch for climbing isn't necessary but can be added.
The top, if using an aquarium or similar type enclosure, must be escape proof. Corns are escape artists. If using a screen top be sure to use the proper clips to secure the top.
Back to the earlier issue. The hatchling needs to be fed pinkie mice. The normal recommendation is to feed once every 5 to 7 days. I personally feed every 7 days.
Start with one pinkie at each feeding. After a while there will not be a noticeable bulge and then you can move up to two pinkies each feeding. When these don't leave a noticeable bulge move up to one fuzzie.etc..etc (my personal feeding progression anyway)
Another thing, tell this person to pick up a copy of The Corn Snake Manual by Kathy and Bill Love.
The best book out there for corn snake care.
If you have questions let us know. We will do what we can to help.

I must add this, though. I think your friend would be doing better just to refuse the replacement snake from PetCo and get one from a reputable breeder. I know it would be a loss of the original investment but for every snake PetCo sells that is that many more they will bring to their stores.
Some PetCo's just do not have people able or willing to give corn snakes the proper care. If we could get people to boycott the reptiles at PetCo's we would be saving a lot of animals in the long run.
I honestly believe it is a store policy NOT to feed their snakes with mice. The mice cost too much so they throw crickets in the tanks and try to convince people this is proper care.
I actually saw one store that had gold fish in their corn snake's water bowl. "This is proper care and feeding for corn snakes" Those were the exact words of the clerk when I pointed this stupidity out.
So, I walked over to the rack in THAT store and produced their own care sheet on corn snake care and asked him to show me exactly where it said to feed a corn snake gold fish and where it stated to pollute their water source with said gold fish. Especially when you consider there was a couple of dead ones in the water dish.
sorry to rant

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Corn snakes and rat snakes..No one can have just one.
"resistance is futile"
Jimmy (draybar)

Draybars Snakes

I think the problem with places like petco is they do not take the time to properly train their employees. And if they do get someone who cares about the animals and has some knowledge they won't listen to them and the employee ends up quiting.

This kind of deal is bad for everyone, the new guy that bought the snake( bad experience), the snake itself(it died), The shop who has a disgruntled customer and is still giving bad information etc etc. This scene plays itself out many times each year in this hobby.

In my younger years I owned two shops, so I am not anti-pet shop in any way. When it is done right that is! I quit the shops because of the intense pressure from the chain stores on supplies which is where most shops make the profits they make.

Petco and others like them are profit centered also and they will continue to stock live animals as long as folks buy them, further for over 35 years shops like this one you are talking about have continued to be a thorn in good keepers rear ends. The main reason for that is that live animals in a pet shop are mainly impluse buy purchases. A perfect scenario for bad information, bad experiences and loss of good people that have a bad experience to the hobby.

The only thing that I have found to make a difference with a bad shop with no experience or bad information is to try and talk to the owners about what they are most interested in. PROFITS, when animals die they lose customers and end having to usually replace the animals for those customers(which costs them money). We offer to provide them with good care sheets which give the basics of reptile keeping and secondly offer to hold a training seminar for the employees of the store. You would be amazed at the number of shops that have taken us up on the offer.

As far as feeding of the hatchling, I have had young corns take all kinds of stuff ( frogs, fish, silk worms etc. etc. ), but for a hatchling corn to thrive a diet of pinks makes the most sense and any shop that says other wise has not raised many hatchlings. I would be interested to know what the location of the shp was and I will send them a letter and some care sheets if you will email me the information.

I hope your friend has better luck with his new corn and enjoys the hobby.

Let us know if we can be of help.

John Cherry
Cherryville Farms

Cherryville Farms - Reptiles

I agree... it was awefull for trheir 5 kids too... That idea about a training seminar is great! I'm yhinking of taking the job as I've wanted to start my own shop for some time and maybe this would be the best way to get started.... plus i may be able to make a differance... even if it's just for the animals I help people with.

Appreciate your post!

Robert
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Don't choose your friends by show,
feathers float but perils lay low!

By the time I was done with the manager she offered me a job running the entire reptile department as a manager.... I don't know if I'm going to do it or not as they only want to pay like 8 bucks an hour and I don't think that woiuyld be proper compensation for the crap I'd deal with from the idiots.... lol

Thanks everyone!

Robert Wood
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Don't choose your friends by show,
feathers float but perils lay low!

My neighbor bought a snow from Petco and they told her to use that red bark as a substrate.. is this ok for babys or adults for that matter?

No I wouldn't, it doesnt allow the little ones to burrow as easy, go with aspen, works like a charm

Also they told her to feed it worms untill it shed for the first time... it has visible digesting food in 3 spots so I know they are feeding it but at the tail it's like there is nothing but skin and bone.... it died last night I believe... I amy be mistaken but doesn't a baby need small pinkies to have a source of calcium for bone growth?

I dont know of any snake that eats worms, they require pinkies, fuzzies, hoppers and so on. A great book to read about care ans husbandry is the Corn Snake manual by Kathy Love, and they post here as well

Also I called the store and was informed the guy that gave all this advice is now fired and they are replacing the snake so I just want to be sure i am right about whatcaused the death of this snake... They said they are feeding the babies crickets.... but they are high in phospherous which blocks calcium absorbtion or is this not true with these guys?

Crickets for a corn? Thats a new one, but no. If you throw them into the tank with the snake chances are, at night, the crix are going to try and eat the corn snake. Why would you want something that blocks calcium absorption?

I'm not real into corns so wanted to get some sound advice.. the cage had a bowl of water and it was very clean.... I can't see anything other than the fod they said to feed it that would have donme this unless it ingested a pice of the bark and became blocked.... What do you guys think?

I think Petco and PetsMart and all these other brand name pet stores need to be closed. There are a few mom and popp stores that are knowledgeable but the big ones aren't unless you are asking about a cat, dog, kitten or puppy. Well sorry about your friends loss and i wouldn't except another snake from them and just chaulk the whole thing up to a loss

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0.1 Albino Cal. King (Fokker)
1.0 Reverse Okeetee Corn (trouble)
0.1 Creamsicle Corn (Spot)
0.0.2 Anery (Thanks Jimmy)
1.2 Dogs(2 Boxers, Cookie and Joe, Lhasa Apso, George)
1.0 Betta
0.1 Wife
0.1 Kid

Thanks everyone! I knew that was all wrong.... Just one more horror story to add to the stack. I'm seriously considering taking the job with them justy to see if I can make a differance...

Later,
Robert
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Don't choose your friends by show,
feathers float but perils lay low!

I don't think your friend's corn NECCESSARILY starved to death. It may very well have, and in fact, that probably what did happen. However, it is not 100% the case , in my estimation, because I know of at least one corn snake that was fed nothing but earthworms for an extended period of time, and it not only survived, it actually thrived on that strange diet.

Are mice preferable? Yes, for so many reasons I don't even want to go into the details. Do I ONLY use mice? Except for the ones I am trying to switch to mice, yes. Are mice the only things that corns can eat and grow well? No, not at all. I do believe it is int he best interest in the animal and in the owner to feed only frozen/thawed mice, though.

I believe that most pet store employees are not qualified to do anything but clean cages (and many aren't even able to do THAT well!), and even if you happen to get a good employee in your local store, you still support the system of a national chain, by purchasing from there, and that is something that I cannot do. I sell my excess babies to a regional store, and they listen to me about all sorts of issues, including on health care for the animals. But that is an unusual situation, in which I have a certain amount of control.

As I stated above, it may very well be that your friend's snake starved to death, but it may also have died from a disease of some sort, or from stress related illness brought on by the sorry way it was treated at the store. My advice is to completely clean the housing in which you want to keep a snake (I mean disinfect everything!), wait a few weeks to let everything air out and calm down, then buy a new snake from a reputable breeder.

Your friend will be happier, the snake will be healthier, and your friend won't be supporting a system that abuses animals the way that national chain routinely does. It's a tough pill to swallow simply on the advice of strangers, but I honestly think that is the way to go from here.

Hope that helps a bit...
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Darin Chappell
Hillbilly Herps
PO Box 254
Rogersville, MO 65742

I understand completely what you are saying... With beardies there are foods you can feed that will give enoiugh nutrients to sustain life and growth but will cause problems later in life... I also understand about supporting a national chain system of torture.... it is just so frustrateing... I seen the baby when they bought it and it didn't seem to have any problems and she said that she noticed it slowing down alot but just thought it was due to the colder wheather.. six weeks isn't long for a bay to go from seemingly healthy to skin and bone then death.... jsut sad.... Thanks for your reply Darrin. I'll pass along everyuone's advise and let them do what perople always do.... exactly what they want.....lol

Later,
Robert Wood
Tulsa,OK
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Don't choose your friends by show,
feathers float but perils lay low!