Reptile & Amphibian Forums

This is going to kill the anti Morph people (i.e.) Mutt haters, before you start with your no cross b.s. stop and think! were did you come from? are you a pure breed? im a Mutt! part German Irish and Indian, what's your family tree like? some of the best dogs I have ever had were Mutts, they don't have the genetic weakness of the pure breed's Now with that being said here is a pair of Het Albinos, their father was a Kahl Albino and the mother was a 100% Peruvian, we have seen the results of breeding the Kahl Albino to a Surname, these guys should make some really nice Albinos! or
should I say some kick ass Mutts. lol

Mom said if you cant say anything nice then shut up....

Jimmy Texhiss.Com

RUBEN MICHEL

....

Those tails ROCK! I look forward to seeing the results of those. Keep making those BEAUTIFUL Boas Jimmy !!! Andy

One of my favorite crosses are the Salmontines. No secret there. But, what really caught my eye was when someone croseed a Hogg and a Surinam. I know, most purists nightmare. LOL! But, MAN, were those things cool looking.
This is not my pic and I didn't take it. I just wanted to share. Hopefully I don't tick off the person who took them.

Truthfully, I am pretty mixed about making crosses. I have an internal battle going on and on about them. (Part of being a Libra. LOL!) But, I sure enjoy the byproduct that is produced by them. Color me a mutt lover.
John
-----
"To be the best..........You must lose your mind."

That is one sweet boa. Thanks for posting. They are like lays potato chips...you can't just have one! How old is that one John? Thanks Andy

>>That is one sweet boa. Thanks for posting. They are like lays potato chips...you can't just have one! How old is that one John? Thanks Andy
-----
"To be the best..........You must lose your mind."

A poor pic but what I have for right now. Serpents Den bred them in 2002, hopefully this girl will make a good mom next year. For a four way cross, the motivation COLOR and a little crazy pattern. BTW all babie will be microchipped and certified as the crosses they are I do not want someone passing them for a pure morph.

When you said Morph haters, did you mean Hybrid haters? I am a hybrid hater. Have you seen the classifieds lately, lots of hybrids for sale, still for sale, still there, on sale...why, nobody wants them. I honestly just do not see the need for hybrids, and can see potentially harmfull results where purebreds are eventually rare, and snakes have unknown backgrounds. Just do not see the need, nor do I have the desire...but to each his own I guess.

Dave

That's what they are Hybrids...You will see people posting them on the classifieds, but let's get real here...how many searching the classifieds are just pet owners.?? I would say better than 90% of the people shopping the classifieds online are looking for breeding stock. The pet owners are still in the local pet shops. There are always going to be those trying to sell the non hypos of the litter or the het this and thats..trying to squeeze out some extra cash. The reason they are not selling is because why should a breeder spend 100-200 on a het anything or a poss something when you can pay 100 more and get something different. What people ought to do is sell them at the shows or local pet shops or give them away to young herpers to be. Those so called mutts or hybrids will always be gems to that little boy or girl wanting their first snake...and it's alot easier to give them one of those than an albino or a sunglow. Everyone in this hobby or business should try to work this out. Unity builds strength. What is best for all here.

Andy

WHAT???

Either I totally missed your point, or your post made no sense whatsoever.

You could read it again and try to understand it....or I guess you just missed it. Andy

OR, maybe you had no point at all, and were just rambling about nothing...

It seems to me the reason to cross the true redtails into the Colombian albinos is now kind of passe. It supposedly was going to create crisper redder tails and markings, but they've already been far surpassed by selectively breeding the albinos into Salmon lines, Sunglows, and pastels. I doubt if an albino from your cross will have near the color of the present day coral albinos, pastel albinos, and sunglows.

Great leaps have been made with the albino gene. "We" really don't need to use the Suri or Peruvian for coloration. For some people...It's just kind of what they're into. I love hypos and I love Argentines. The Salmontine is a fun boa for me. I love albinos and I love Surinams...An, albino suri would be pretty cool to own. Personally, I doubt I would breed them. They would just be fun and "strange" crosses to own.
Another selling point for me, being the buyer, would be that they Suri crosses "should" get bigger than normal albinos. That alone would make me want to own one. I'm a sucker for BIG snakes!
John
-----
"To be the best..........You must lose your mind."

I like that ad for the Peruvian het Columbian Albinos that says, "Get in on the ground floor and name your price for your albinos." Come on....

I am going to compare snakes and cars Here is my analogy...

People who like purebred snakes would probably take the 68 Camero that is all original, #'s match, with stock rims over a 68 Camero that has been suped up, new 454 engine, new rims, etc.

People who like hybrids may opt for the 68 Camero with the new, bigger engine, new rims, etc. After awhile, and many tickets, you go to sell that hotrod, and get maybe $10k for it, after putting $17K into it, while you notice a nice original going for $30K.

The point being, when you try to improve on the original, you may get a short term benifit, a short lived high, but in the end, you will probably get stuck with animals nobody wants, or animals you spent alot of time and money on, but in the end, won't bring in what a purebred animal would. I think hybrid people think they are on the cutting edge of breeding, making a better snake, and I strongly disagree.

A reply to the previous post, compairing boas with Cameros, it more like an old school original classic worth $30,000 and a Totally Custom car built by a custom car builder. The way Herpetoculture is going, Morphs are everywhere, you can't stop it from happening. You see it everywhere, with almost every reptile, and even in amphibians. It is true that in the future, Sunglows, Hypos, ect. ect. will come down in price and the market will bottom out, but by that time there will be something else, that hot, and the newest thing. I think its important to have purists in the hobby, as well as Morph breeders, they are key to the future of Herpetoculture. I myself was a purist, and after meeting my wife who is into morphs, I see both sides. But what I can't understand is Why there is a divide, almost a hatred for one side or another?? Purists can continue to produce the nicest examples of the speciems they are working with, and Morph breeders will always create new things, I respect the purists, and at the same time admire what new morphs are being created. Morphs are something you can't stop from happening, its human nature to want to create something new and one of a kind. BUT Morph breeders I think don't give enough credit to some of the "pure" offspring purists create. And I wish there was more of a market for Locality Boas, and maybe someday future keepers and breeders will get more into them, so that the Purists won't hate the Morph breeders so much.
-----
"Life is a Safari"

I never said anything about Morphs, I am talking Hybrids...there is a big difference!

So what you are saying is too You "HYBRIDS" Mean when you cross BCC with a BCI?? Is that what you are saying? So you think BCC X with BCI is the same as a Burm X Retic. I thought BCI's where subspecies of BCC. And to Hybridize you have to Breed two different Species of animal to get a hybrid. Such as breeding a Horse to a donkey will produce a Mule. A hybrid example would be a Surinam X Anaconda....
-----
"Life is a Safari"

Nice albino you have there....What makes you so sure that is not a hybrid? When you see what the suriname bloodline does for the albinos, I think you may have to re-consider your statements...about Hybrids. I think the Argentine crosses are also making some very nice albinos. Andy

Andy, you actually make my point for me, "Nice albino, how do you know it is not a hybrid?" MY point exactly, in a few years, people will not know what they are buying, pure columbian albino or a cross albino. As for my animals, I know who produced them, and know the lineage.

That's great Dave...I never said anything about not having true locale breedings. I think they should be breeding them to keep the integrity of the snake species. I am just saying all morphs are hybrids...like it or not, and if you like albinos...fine...welcome to the club. I will set a place at the table for you. What you are saying as I see it..is there is no room at the table for those who breed hybids. Andy

This may be only my opinion on the subject, but I do not think people are buying morphs based on bloodline at all...They are bought based on genetic traits that they can pass, be it color, stripe, or whatever. I just think we are looking at two completely differnt sides here. I do think we need both and will always have a demand for both as well. Andy

WHo did produce that one Dave?
-----
Davey Giltner

Glenn at GNP

The thread was started with a Peruvian x Columbian cross. Since these two countries border, are there natural crosses? My understanding is that the Hypo boas were started by a Columbian x Panamanian cross, which, could occur in nature. My feeling is, if a boa is distinct enough, ie the hogg island, Suriname, Peruvian, that it should be bred to only its own. Too me, an Argentine x Columbian cross makes no sense. I just hope one day that there are still Hondurans, and Nics that are pure. Too me, trying to make a better albino using crosses just is not an option, for me.