Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hi:

I am well versed in snake husbandry; however, amphibians I am not. I often take trips through the woods (mosty riperian zones) and find tons of salamanders here in MS. Slimy to be specific. I never planned on keeping them, but I found so many I decided to keep a few. My question is: Are they worth keeping? I have no problems letting them go, but would like to give it a try and keeping them. Pros and cons would be very helpful. Comments, suggestions, and husbandry info would be great too! Thanks for everyone's help in advance! Also, I am going to begin researching myself, but would like to hear some suggestions from the veterans.

Thanks!

It sounds like you are getting them from the wild which is bad, and you should get them from the pet store, if you are really interested and informed. Here is all the information. (It is information from cuadta culture, and it is just one type of slimy sal.)

http://www.caudata.org/cc/articles/articles.shtml

I also highly suggest you ask questions at this forum.

www.caudata.org

Good luck!
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Mark B.

Mark:

Yes, they are from the wild. I indicated that in my previous post. Also, I've found a legitimate website that you might what to check out. It says the original scientific name is now reserved for the Northern Slimy Salamander. Now, they are broken down into 13 different types. In the laboratory, through genetics, they are distinct. Phenotypically they all appear the same. This site has the range map on the 13 different slimy salamanders. Read on.

Northern Prairie Wildlife Research Center

Actually the link Mark provided covers all of the species of slimy salamander. The break down into the various species is not recognized by all of the authors yet and is still debated to some extent (such as by Petranka).

Ed

Actually, Mark, it's far better for someone to get animals from the wild or a breeder than a petstore. Pet store salamanders almost always come from the wild, and on top of that, are treated poorly, malnourished, and are usually kept in terrible condition at the pet store.

There's nothing wrong with taking a few animals from the wild, provided they're not protected, are legal to collect in that location, have a stable population, and the collector has knowledge of how to keep and care for the animals. It's when people collect in excess that causes the problems, which ironically, is tied to the pet trade that your recommended him to pursue.

I just think it's better to take that poor tortured pet out of the petstore, rather than take one out of the wild where it is happily living its life contently.
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Mark B.

You're missing the point, Mark. That poor, tortured animal has already been taken out of the wild, and subjected to far worse treatment than if someone goes out and collects a few. By buying the pet store animal, you're creating a demand to take animals out of the wild, and providing money to the takers. For every animal that survives to make it to the petstore, many die, and many more get sick.

An entire breeding population can be captured by the pet trade, which on a local level can make a big difference. If every one captured their own (which is impossible, but still), at the very least it'd be spread out.

Frankly getting them from the pet store is worse than taking them from the wild. Because 1)where do you think the ones in the pet store came from? the wild 2)you are supporting the commercial collecting of them 3) more often than not they are already stressed out and on thier way out from being kept in poor conditions.

So therefore taking a few from the wild is no big deal. I at one point had a live collection of salamanders of 57 different species and 300 individuals. They can be very rewarding to keep, and Slimy's are my favorite Plethodontids to keep, they have a lot of personality and are fairly active.

Keep them in a forest floor type setup, with soil from the woods, bark, leaves, rocks, and maybe even some moss. The natural balance of organic and bacteria in the soil will help break down waste and the enclosure will pretty much maintain itself. Slimys in the wild eat mostly spiders and small insects, so tiny vitamin dusted crickets, fruit flies, pill bugs, spiders, etc. will be a good diet for them. Make sure to keep a tightly locking lid on the tank, they do climb. Mist the tank at least twice a day, and keep it in a cooler part of the house where the temp wont get over 75 degrees.

If you have any otehr questions feel free to contact me directly.

Thanks,
Dave Odd
847-409-8623

Dave:

Thanks Dave for the great information! Glad to hear from someone who knows their salamanders. I am very optimistic right now! Thanks for all your help! I will DEFINITELY email you if I have any questions. Take care!

THANKS!

Very cool, glad to help.

If you have a problem with the tank getting dry too quickly, cover part of the lid with plastic wrap. Slimys need to stay moist because they breathe through thier skin, so make sure they always have ample moisture, BUT NOT A WATER DISH. Slimys live, breed, and lay eggs on land, so they can very easliy drown even in the shallowest water.

Dave

The water would need to be deeper than the animal for it to drown. Even if the animal will not use a water dish they have some value as the will often retain water under the dish allowing for even totally terrestrial animals to seek refuge in a more humid enviroment preventing dessication.

Ed

Dave:

Could I feed them wild crickets? I am not familiar with vitamin dusted crickets or pill bugs. Would you elaborate? Don't know where to get too many spiders off hand...Lol.. Any other ideas for practical diets?

Thanks again

Yes you can feed them wild crickets as long as the crickets are of the right size. Becareful when feeding crickets as if the crickets are left in the cage too long without food the crickets may predate on the salamanders.
They will take many different invertebrates as long they are the correct size.
If you are using collected soil dwelling arthropods and/or worms as the primary food source then the food should contain sufficient calcium to supply the needs of the salamanders. If you are going to be buying the food source then you will need to supplement the food at least once and probably twice a week.

On a further note, plethodontid salamanders are known to be aggressive to each other so you will need to provide sufficient space and hide areas for the salamanders.
I would suggest checking out the caudata culture slimy salamander care sheet as it covers the entire slimy salamander complex.

Ed

---> =)

Ed essentially my concern with the water dish is that plethodontid salamanders can actually suffocate if they submerge themselves in water.

So long at the salamanders have plenty of places to hide, territory shouldn't be a problem.

As far as "vitamin dusting" if you get crickets at a pet store, purchase a commercially available amphibian vitamin powder and dust the crickets with it before feeding. Thier metabolisms are pretty high because they are very active as far as salamanders go, so probably feed them the equivalent or 3-4 1/4 inch crickets every other day.

Dave

This can only occur if the animal falls into a deep container and cannot get out. Most of the water dishes kept in these enclosures are not deep enough to accomedate that and the placement of a piece of cork or a small stone that breaks the water surface will allevitate even that concern.

Actually salamanders do not have very high metabolisms. (It is temperature dependent but still pretty slow) but they do not need to be fed daily unless they are fed very small food items (such as ffs) and the lower the temperature the less they need to be fed. In some species, around 55F they may only need two to four small crickets a week to supply all needed energy for growth and ovulation.

Crickets purchsed from pet stores are usually nutrient poor lacking in fats, protiens and some trace minerals and vitamins due to the starvation of the crickets in transit and before purchase. They should be fed a decent food source for at least 48 hours (not a high calcium diet as there are other complications there) before being fed out. That said there are very few cases of "MBD" being reported in caudates and they do not appear to need the D3 in many supplements and may be able to get by with only a calcium carbonate supplement.

Ed

Do I have to spell out everything so you don't have to "correct" me. I meant, as far as salamanders go, Slimy's have a fairly high metabolism, and I said they should be fed every OTHER day.

Dave

As far as I know slimeys have the same caloric requirements (and hence metabolic requirements) that all other similar sized plethodontids have. Do you have any references to the contrary?

The diet requirements you specified do not fit with the group I kept for over ten years.

Ed

From my personal experience Slimys are much more active than other species and consequently will eat more (for thioer size) as compared to species of similar size. I would feed them every other day, or every third day, depending on the temperature and time of year.

Dave

In my personal experience they are no more active than any other large plethodontid such as jordani or yonahlossee. As with these other two species, if kept cool should only need to be fed about twice a week. If kept cold (mid 50s) that can be decreased to once a week.

Ed

Hi, Correct me if someone knows 100% sure, but aren't a lot of salamanders that are sold in pet stpres bredd in captivity? And wouldn't it cause them less stress to be taken from a pet store into a nice vivarium, instead of taking them from the wild right into a cramped vivarium in a place that they are unfamiliar with?
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Mark B.

Like I said in my other post tehre are virtually NO captive bred native salamanders that are sold in pet stores. Captive bred salamanders are a rarity to begin with and most of those are sold privatley to collectors or at trade shows. The only commonly and commercially available captive bred salamanders are European Fire Salamanders, and often they are kept too warm, and too wet in the pet store and already have the begginings of a good bacterial or fungal infection when you get them.

The only salamnders that you will find in pet stores that you can be 100% sure of as being captive bred are the various color phases of the aquatic Axolotyls.

Dave