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if you breed an Axan HET Ghost x Hypo HET ghost what do you expect compared to a DH xDH..........Chris L8r...

>>if you breed an Axan HET Ghost x Hypo HET ghost what do you expect compared to a DH xDH..........Chris L8r...

I'd like to strongly recommend you use instead this terminology for teh example above: axanthic het hypo X hypo het axanthic. THAT is more specific and it avoids numerous errors i've seen people make. Since "ghost" is a double recessive mutation, it's really not correct to say "het for ghost" since "het" is short for "heterozygous" which means different, as in one hypo gene and one normal gene, whereas the examples above you're really saying that for the genes relative to ghost, the animal is really "homozygous morph a" and "het morph b", but NOT het for the double morph ab. Hope that makes sense. Your usage is not at all uncommon, but we owe it to the hobby to try to use the most precise & correct terminology possible.

Now, as to your question, it's late and i'm doing off the top of my head but i think these are right:

dh x dh= 1/16 double homozygous ("ghost", 3/16 hypo poss het axanthic, 3/16 axanthic poss het hypo, and 9/16 poss dbl hets.

hypo het axanthic x axanthic het hypo = 1/4 double homozygous ("ghost", 1/4 hypo het/axanthic, 1/4 axanthic het hypo, and 1/4 definite double hets.

peace

td

Thanks Terry i think i get it what do we call, terminology(HOMO a and HET b or HOMO b and HET a) i understand it would be axan het hypo or vise versa ,what if one of the parents was a ghost i think it ups the odds for ghost offspring?Chris

>>Thanks Terry i think i get it what do we call, terminology(HOMO a and HET b or HOMO b and HET a) i understand it would be axan het hypo or vise versa ,what if one of the parents was a ghost i think it ups the odds for ghost offspring?Chris

Hi Chris, first of all, thanks for not objecting to my assumed role as terminology advocate!

the key to figuring out breeding results is to consider each morph separately.

Example, based on your question above, assuming you're asking what you get if you breed a ghost X a hypo het/xanthic: A ghost is really just an animal exhibiting two homozygous phenotypes: it's a hypo, and it's an axantic. So, considered separately, the breeding in this example is really a breeding of hypo x hypo and of axanthic x het/axanthic. Hypo x hypo = all the babies will be hypos. Xanthic x het/xanthic = babies half of which are xanthic and half of which are het/xanthic.

So the challenge is in figuring out how those two results interact or "overlap".

ALL the babies are hypos, so half of all the babies will be hypo AND will be xanthics (and thus ghosts) and half will be hypo AND het/xanthic (and thus hypos het/xanthic.)

In the trickier example of breeding ghost x double het, you're doing two separate homozygous x heterozygous breedings, each of which produces babies half of which are homoz and half of which are het FOR THAT RESPECTIVE MORPH.

So in that latter example, hypo x het = babies half of which are hypo and half of which are het/hypo, right? NOW CONSIDER EACH OF THOSE TWO GROUPS SEPARATELY. (sorry for the all caps but i think it serves the purpose here). OF THE HALF THAT ARE HYPOS: half OF THOSE will be xanthics (remember half are xanthic and half are het/xanthic) so this group consists of 1/2 that are hypo and 1/2 of THOSE that are also xanthic and 1/2 x 1/2 = 1/4 so 1/4 are ghosts.

The other half of the hypos are het/xanthic, and that's what they are--hypos/xanthic, so 1/2 of 1/2 = 1/4 so 1/4 are hypos het/xanthic. (incidentally, since i'm supposed to be a stickler for terminology, you guys help me out here--is it correctly xanthic? or axanthic?)

Resuming the ghost x dbl het exploration, we've now accounted for the 50% of the babies that are hypos.

The other 50% (remember where we started with this ghost x dbl het example) are HET/hypo. of THAT 50%, half will be het hypo and xanthic, so 1/2 x 1/2 = 1/4 that are het/hypo and xanthic, and the other half of the 50% that are het/hypo will be het/hypo and het/xanthic so 1/2 x 1/2 = 1/4 that are double hets.

So ghost x dbl het = 1/4 ghost, 1/4 xanthic het/hypo, 1/4 hypo het xanthic, and 1/4 double het.

You can see a similar discussion of all these considerations if you review the genetics page on my website, (link below) or the link to genetics is on my homepage at www.albinotricolors.com. I don't illustrate punnet squares there, though that's one legitimate way to figure out breeding results. IMHO, underestanding HOW to figure out these sorts of breeding results is more useful than plugging into a formula that gives the results, and certainly more helpful than just being told the answer, because once the method's understood you can apply it to each new or different or (sometimes) more complex situation. That's why i've tried to elaborate here on the methodology, the way to noodle it out logically.

I encourage anyone with similar questions to check out my genetics page, since the answer (and the methodology) is there and i won't always have time to type it all out in answer to individual questions. Lastly, I also ask anyone who reviews my genetic page to let me know if you find errors OR if there are places where you simply get lost. Knowing where my explanation is inadequate allows me to improve it.

thanks in advance,
peace
terry
click here for genetics page

thanks Terry and im gonna check your Page. Xanthic is a yellow or red phase Axanthic is Lacking similar to melanistic to Amel. I think that was your Question..Peace nice having a chat w/out being bashed!(yet)lol what does Webster call Xanthic?. Here it is= YELLOW. ? what do we call a RED animal ?....L8r Chris....

>>thanks Terry and im gonna check your Page. Xanthic is a yellow or red phase Axanthic is Lacking similar to melanistic to Amel. I think that was your Question..Peace nice having a chat w/out being bashed!(yet)lol what does Webster call Xanthic?. Here it is= YELLOW. ? what do we call a RED animal ?....L8r Chris....

Chris,

the reason i asked about the distinction between xanthic and axanthic is because i suspected things were as you report them: xanthic is EXTRA red or yellow coloring from extra erythrins (xanthic actually being HYPERxanthic, just as melanistics are actually HYPERmelanistic).

BUT "ghosts" are usually the combination of of hypomelanistic and (in the case of hondurans, for example) "anerythristics", which are the functional equivalent of Axanthic, to the best of my knowledge. So I'm not sure your original question is on target: in getula, are "ghosts" hypomelanistic and Xanthic? or hypomelanistic and Axanthic? Very different critters.

Terry

maybe i used an abbreviated term like "Axan " instead of Axanthic i dont recall using Xanthic but it could be, or a typo which i believe is a typographical error. with my chicken peckin typing I could be a hyper-typo. L8r my friend,Chris

>>maybe i used an abbreviated term like "Axan " instead of Axanthic i dont recall using Xanthic but it could be, or a typo which i believe is a typographical error. with my chicken peckin typing I could be a hyper-typo. L8r my friend,Chris

Hi chris,

I just reread your posts in this thread and i see only axan, not xanthic, so i guess the error is mine. I apologize. the genetics of what i wrote remains true, i just misread which two morphs you were considering the resutls from. again, sorry.
terry