Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Ok this makes no logical sense to me. The other day I found mold in my pythons cage. It also smelled like it inside. I had recently taped up the vents, maybe a third only though. I have a Vision 422. I have a ProProducts RHP (12x18, 65w). I dont have any misting system setup at the time and I havent manually misted the cage recently. To keep it from being too dry, I have a relatively large water tub in the middle of the cage. My humidity recently read 25%RH. Im confused as to how I can get mold in a cage when the levels are that low and I dont have a misting system in place. And some people have them at 70-90% RH. Even more, I was told by a reputable RHP manufacturer (no names) that its ok to cover all vents on this Vision since the space between the glass is sufficient ventilation and you dont want to lose all that heat. Does mold growth with only a 25% RH, no misting system, and a vented cage make any sense to anyone? I just recently ordered a misting system..I'm going to have to think twice and experiment with different ventilation/misting schemes to get it right.

I think you need more ventalation but I would also think your guage you are using to measure this 25% humidity is not functioning. Try putting it in a small rubber container on the heat pad and have some damp paper towels in there...you should get a much higher reading...if it doesnt look like 90 percent in there..I am guessing your guage is not working.

A vision cage will hold heat and humidity fine without you having to tape the vents up, all you achieve is no air flow. Why would you want your humidity that low, you should get it to at least 50%. You just need to clean the entire cage more often.

One of the leading causes of RI problems in burms is by overzealous burm owners trying to create high humidity conditions at the sacrifice of GOOD AIR FLOW which is perhaps even more important. You cannot provide healthy conditions in a cage where you have high humidity and poor air quality. Taping up the vents and just allowing the space in between the sliding glass doors is HORRIBLE advice and I personally don't see how you can possibly have good air quality in this type of arrangement. Instead, get the tape off and just try to mist the cage a couple of times a day (heck, usually once is sufficient). Yes, you will have humidity spikes and declines but as long as burms have opportunities during the day to seek high humidity they'll do just fine....a lot better than stale air conditions. My burms are in their 20's, 30's and they were always kept in neodesha and Vision cages throughout the years; always with full vents open, newspaper substrate and a large water bowl (but not large enough to allow soaking)....and they have done just fine with a daily misting every day or so.

Hope this helps.

Rob Carmichael, Curator
The Wildlife Discovery Center
Lake Forest, IL

Again, this advice was given to my by a manufacturer that many people here (including yourself) hold in high regard. Although I was told it was ok to cover all vents, I didnt want to take chances so I only covered a third of it (like I mentioned). Once I noticed the mold, I removed the tape (and obviously performed a thorough cleaning). Thanks for the response.

>>One of the leading causes of RI problems in burms is by overzealous burm owners trying to create high humidity conditions at the sacrifice of GOOD AIR FLOW which is perhaps even more important. You cannot provide healthy conditions in a cage where you have high humidity and poor air quality. Taping up the vents and just allowing the space in between the sliding glass doors is HORRIBLE advice and I personally don't see how you can possibly have good air quality in this type of arrangement. Instead, get the tape off and just try to mist the cage a couple of times a day (heck, usually once is sufficient). Yes, you will have humidity spikes and declines but as long as burms have opportunities during the day to seek high humidity they'll do just fine....a lot better than stale air conditions. My burms are in their 20's, 30's and they were always kept in neodesha and Vision cages throughout the years; always with full vents open, newspaper substrate and a large water bowl (but not large enough to allow soaking)....and they have done just fine with a daily misting every day or so.
>>
>>Hope this helps.
>>
>>Rob Carmichael, Curator
>>The Wildlife Discovery Center
>>Lake Forest, IL

Just because I hold someone in high regard doesn't mean that I always agree with them. There are just so many variables that affect good health in burms and all things being equal, I would prefer to have my snake in a cage with good air flow/ventilation than one with stale air.

My only point in stating that I was given that advice was to give the full description of the situation and the reasoning for covering a vent. Not saying that everyone is expected to agree with other peoples advice. Thats all.

>>Just because I hold someone in high regard doesn't mean that I always agree with them. There are just so many variables that affect good health in burms and all things being equal, I would prefer to have my snake in a cage with good air flow/ventilation than one with stale air.

how big is a 20 or 30 yr old burm?

Hey Rob,

I am the one who gave the "bad" advice. It can be tough to maintain perfect conditions in many cages due to the cage design and room conditions. It can be difficult , if not impossible to create sufficient humidity levels in a cage with large amounts of ventilation, especially when they are placed in the top of the cage due to low humidity levels in the room where the cage is kept. Since higher humidity levels will create a higher vapor pressure in a airspace, any ventilation will allow that air to equalize with the cooler drier room air. Placing any vents on top of a cage will also create a "chimney effect" as any warm air in the cage rises, which will cause the air in the cage to quickly be replaced with cooler, drier, room air. Most overhead incandecent heat sources need to be placed outside the cage to avoid a burn hazard, and a screen opening installed in the top of the cage. These heat sources can create large updrafts, increasing this air transfer significantly, quickly "sucking" both the heat and humidity out of the cage.
Although I absolutely agree with you that ventilation is a great thing, ambient conditions in many locations where animals are kept are far from optimum and one must make some allowances. Low temperatures and low humidity levels will also stress a reptile, which can lead to RI infections as well as lowering the animals overall resistance to other problems.
The only way to maintain adequate humidity levels in these situations is to limit the amount of ventilation, especially in the top portions of a cage. I have found and I know 100s of people who also need to limit the ventilation in order to create the proper conditions, especially during the winter in much of the country, and the summer in locations where one is running an air conditioner, resulting in lower room humidity. I do tell people that most times, any vents in the top of the cage are counterproductive and that any vents should be installed lower in the cage and one should be able to adjust/close them when the room conditions are less than optimum. I have also found that often, the gap between the front glass, along with periodic opening of the cage is sufficient air exchange which will allow the cage to maintain better humidity levels. I also state that if mold or mildew does form, obviously there is a problem with excess moisture that has to be addressed. It may be that a condition such as the water bowl being regulary spilled is creating excessive moisture at that location, soaking a substrate which will then allow the formation of mold, which would not necessarily be a result of excessive humidity in the entire cage.
The cage may also be overmisted, which can cause such a problem. All of this must be taken into account and the cage and husbandry procedures adjusted accordingly.
The other problem can be with the hygrometer being used, or where it is placed in the cage. Many of the cheaper units sold are worthless as they quickly go out of calibration. I have tested some units that read "desert" levels when in fact the cage had a 85% relative humidity.
Since conditions will vary greatly from one location to another, I do not feel that a blanket rule can apply.

Bob @ Pro Products
Pro Products