I found a 12 inch snapping turtle in the middle of a highway. Feilds all around I have no idea how he go there nothing of interest to him that I could see for miles and hes in the center lane of the highway trying to get across. So I stop and grab him as he wouldnt have made it to the other side. The highway is heavily traveled by rigs and I see dead turtles, snakes, coons etc there all the time. My (18month) son and I go to realease him tonight in a state park out in the middle of no where with a huge lake that about 5 miles from where I found him. On the way in I get pullled over by conservation for doing 32 in a 20. The guy walks up to my car and goes "I pulled ya over for doing 32 in a 20 are you aware of the 20 mile speed limit". I said no and he says "well I see ya down here all the time so I am sure you are" then he asks what I was doing there, first off its a public state park with a camp ground and what not duhhh!!!! I didnt say that but I told him i was unaware of the speed limit as I hadnt been there in over a year and was just there to relaese a turtle that almost became road kill. So he asks to see the animal, I shown him and he made me relase it there on the spot. The entrance to the park is a mile away from the lake! He made me release it in the woods a mile away from the lake! I could have hit him I was so pissed. I asked him if he would take it to the lake as there was no creeks, streams ect anywhere near us. He refused. Then he tells me he is ticketing me for the turtle. I said dude I am just trying to find it a safe place so it wouldnt get killed and he gives me the song and dance because I didnt have a fishing lisnce. I said all I am doing is realseing it. he says " well how do you think this looks to me you come in here with this turtle in a cooler" I said dude look where we are at I am ENTERING the park NOT leaving, if I had anything to hide I would have never told ya in the first place because you would have thought I had hotdogs in the cooler. He says Ill be right back with ya. he comes back with and tickets me for saving the turtle. Thats the most retarded thing I have ever heard of, this guy just had ego all about him because he had a gun and a badge. If I ever get the chance I lead him out in the road and see how long he lasts! Thats just torks me off but thats fine because Ill do it again next time I find and animal in the road. Sorry I just had to vent.
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Jason & Danica
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I got fined tonight for saving a reptile(off topic, just need to vent)
Replies (41)
Man, I'd be mad too-what a jerk. I hope he gets what's coming to him. Don't let it stop you from doing the right thing in the future, though. At least you got an unbelievable story for the forum out of it.
What a total lack of common sense!! Have you thought about filing a complaint against the officer or contesting the fine? Speeding is one thing......and maybe there is justification there, but being honest and telling him about the turtle when you didn't have to......and then fining you for it............geeez! What the h*ll is wrong with some people???
He wrote me a warning for the speeding ticket. Speeding I was guilty of and would have signed the dag on thing and sent in the $75 with it. The ticket for the animal, just torks me off. The ticket amount is the same so I guess its his way of saying I did ya a favor because it wont go against your insurance but to accuse me like he did just pisses me off. If I was leaving the park i could totally see his point because then it would look like I caught it there and was taking it, but entering the park????? Come on! The thing thats gets me even worse is the fact he made me release it on the spot and was to lazy himself to drive it a mile down the road to the lake or let me do it. Another officer shown up after he got in his truck and called my info in, when he arrived he pulled a critter carrier out of the bed of his truck brought it to the officer who was writing me the ticket and he said no and made him put it back. I had some red eared sliders that we found on the road as well. I didnt think the snapper was illegal thats why I said something about it. The red ears I thought were so i didnt and thank god I didnt say anything. Those little guys would have never made it anywhere. They got released in the lake like all of them should have. My son loved watching those guys take off. I dunno screw them because Ill do it again and again. Next time Ill make sure he dont get me for speeding and just for the turtles so I can sue him for harrassment. Because I am sure I could get out of this ticket but then he could get me for the speeding, although since I got a warning maybe he cant? Monday i think Ill be calling a lawyer. Oh ya and the thing I forgot to say in my last post he said he sees me down there all the time so I should know the speed limit when he first walked up to the car. Pretty much calling me a lair because I said I didnt know the limit. When he reliezed my addy while writing the ticket he told me he must remeber my car from the town we live in. Because his house is two blocks away. The town we live in is about 10 miles from the park. So I dunno, I apreciate the support like I said I needed to vent, ticket or not Ill do it all again! Thanks Jason
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Jason & Danica
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Keep up the good work. I'm a sucker for a helpless little critter, like you, and I always try to help one when I can. If we had turtles here, I would be picking them up off the road too. I always stop and shoo Gopher snakes off the road - people will run over them on purpose. Recently, I found a young Pidgeon in my barn with an injured leg and foot. I scooped him up and brought him inside and then to the vet. As his leg was healing, it became apparent that his rear toe that points backword wasn't going to heal properly. It was turned forward underneath his foot and he walking on it and limping. So....off we went to Reno for exrays and an ultimate amputation of said toe. He is really sweet and I'm tempted to keep him as a pet.....but when his foot heals from the surgery.....he will go outside with the others. He'll be Ok. I feed them all 
So.....this jerk lives close by...............hmmmmmm. Perhaps he will get his "issue" of bad Karma some day.
Way too many guys go into law enforcement to compensate for the small size of their penis. Sounds like you ran into one of them.
lhkj
Penis envy, of course, because the only thing worse than a small one is none at all. Or that was basically Freud's argument. Some people have drawn unfortunate conclusions from his great interest in the phenomenon, though.
Patrick Alexander
sdfgh
What a stupid, sexist statement! So I suppose women go into law enforcement because of their small breasts?
Proof positive that our human mental capacity hasn't gone past that of Neanderthals!
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Nature - the original Master Planned Community!
When it comes to mental capacity, it seems it's yours that's lacking. I'll type more slowly. You think really hard and maybe you can follow it this time.
I said too many guys go into it for that reason. I didn't say all of them. I didn't say most of them. I didn't say a lot of them -- I just said "too many." One would be too many.
I didn't say other guys don't go into it for other reasons. I didn't say anything about why women might or might not choose to go into it.
Furthermore, the statement itself is obviously (to people of greater intellectual capacity than yourself) somewhat hyperbolic and based on a commonly used (if somewhat crass) metaphor for an inadequate, insecure guy with a chip on his shoulder.
You really should look into metaphors some time. You're going to have a very hard time in life taking everything so literally and so seriously.
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Nature - the original Master Planned Community!
You should woop his a$$ if you ever catch him off duty. What an irrational idiot. At least you did what you thought was right.
-Carlos R.
Carlos,
That is about the dumbest bit of advice I have seen on the forum to date! Speaking as a Law Enforcement officer you should keep in mind that most of us (if not all) are armed all the time nowadays, just in case someone with your intellect decides to do something stupid in retaliation to us for doing our job. Not to mention that a Battery on a cop is a felony with a mandatory 3 year sentence in State prison (at least in FL). Maybe you should rethink your advice before you get some hurt.
Jim
my fingers tend to hit wrong keys as I type sorry for the mispelled heading.....
Jim
LOL I read it as dumbest at first goes to show how often I miss spell stuff I am even reading it correctly when its miss spelled lol, but as much as I would like to I am not going to beat him down. He desrves it! but it wont come from me Id rather watch my children grow then sit in prision for assualting an officer. Although if the guy always treats people the way he did me I am sure someday someone with nothing to lose will set him straight! I just got to much to lose, what comes around goes around.
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Jason & Danica
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Jason, There's no way I would just pay a fine for that "offense" without having my day in court. You should have a hearing and just tell the truth and I find it hard to believe any decent judge would uphold that charge. I'd go just on the principle of it. You need to show the officer what a d... head he is. Worst thing that could happen is you still end up paying the fine but I doubt it.
Sometimes you just have to say enough of this BS and fight back when what you are doing was the wright thing.
Bill kirby
I had a huge eye-opener when I was in North Carolina a few weeks ago. I was pulled over by a cop for doing 15 over and this dude flipped out kinda like the idiot that pulled you over. He gave me a ticket and I ripped into several peices, having no intention of paying it due to the unprofesional and rude nature of this clown. He threatened to throw me in jail and take my licence away......for doing 15 over! Then on another night I wa stopped by another cop because I was cruising some backroads on a rainy, dark night photographing herps. Same attitide from this guy, I couldn't even ask him what I was doing wrong without getting yelled at and he still didn't give me a reason for making me leave (I was in the middle of nowhere) but rather then argue with this completely irrational man I left. By the end of my trip I was thinking what the hell is all this land of the free crap all about? I have never been treated this way by Canadian authorities. I feel very sorry for anyone that has put up with this treatment from the very people that are sworn to protect and serve you guys and am surprised the American public allow it. I'v never appreciated my country as much after that trip and will not take our liberal views on various issues for granted anymore.
They have to prove without a reasonable doubt that you are guilty... that will not happen
Because I SO enjoy educating the public on the typical misnomers and misconceptions of the law here I go……
Tickets for the most part are civil infractions, speeding, faulty equipment, and more than likely the turtle ticket is also or else he would have to go to court and face possible jail time and probation. In FL most wild life violation are fine tickets (civil infractions) and being civil infractions they are not required to be proven to the same standard of proof as criminal violation. Beyond a reasonable doubt is a criminal burden of proof, by the preponderance of the evidence is the civil standard. That is why the KILLER O.J. Simpson was able to get off the criminal murder charge but was still held civilly liable for the murders.
So the mere fact that he had possession of the animal is all that the officer needs to prove, there is no need to prove that he was going to eat it or keep it or anything else.
The only hope in court would be to explain to the Judge that he was attempting to rescue the animal and have the Judge use his discretion to dismiss the ticket or with hold adjudication and waive the fine.
I hope this clears that up…
Jim Hopkins
Which the judge would...
this week I was in court and saw a guy get his case dismissed because he said that the officer might not have seen him make a turn signal with his hand because there is only so long you can stick your hand out the car while turning and shifting gears. Judge agreed and said not guilty when it seemed more than obvious to me that he most likely did not signal.
Take it to court you will win.
>>Which the judge would...
>>this week I was in court and saw a guy get his case dismissed because he said that the officer might not have seen him make a turn signal with his hand because there is only so long you can stick your hand out the car while turning and shifting gears. Judge agreed and said not guilty when it seemed more than obvious to me that he most likely did not signal.
>>
>>Take it to court you will win.
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Jason & Danica
Classic Dums
No, you probably won't. Not unless the judge is in a particularly good mood. Or (the one thing that's ever saved me) the officer doesn't show up in court for some reason.
At times like this, it helps to remember that many, many young men who become cops were criminals themselves before realizing that becoming a cop is one of the few ways they can ever hope to make a 6-figure salary.
They're not all heroes, for sure.
Because only a cop hating statement such as that could come from a person with a bad experience from Law Enforcement. I don’t know what you do for a living but let me give you a clue what I do….
Every morning I get up and have to put on a gun and body Armor, just do I can go out and protect an ungrateful idiot such as yourself. I do this so I can make sure that I come home to my wife and kids just in case a thug life idiot like Carlos wants to take me out because I work as a Law enforcement office.
I have delivered a baby, helped removed the mangled body of a ten year old boy from under the wheels of a dump truck, arrested rapist, burglars, and drug dealers. I risk my life on a daily basis to make sure that you and your family are as safe as they possibly can be!
I do this for no where near a six figure salary. I’m not a crooked cop and in my 1200 man department, I don’t know of any crooked cops. If I did I would put them in jail too. You had seen too many episodes of “The Shield” which I think is a great show, but not reality.
I also give out traffic tickets to those who endanger our families by abusing our road ways and I ask each and every person I stop about there business and what they are doing. I do this because you never know who the person is and what they are doing. If Timothy Mcvey was stopped the morning before he delivered the bomb to OK city instead of after, maybe the office would have figured out that he was up to no good and prevented the needless killing of so many children. No body like a cop, but try to imagine what our streets would be like with out us. We deal with the worst that society has to offer and all you have to say is that we are criminals?
Not to worry, regardless of your ignorance, we will still be there to save your butt next time it needs saving, so you can go on in life with your cop hating statements…
Jim
He has is opinions and every right to them. Instead of calling people names and creating more hatred learn from these guys who say things like that. Fish and wildlife I have a very serious dislike for right now(slowly growing into hatred). Undercover officers smoking pot with people they are looking to entrap, that bull raid that went on in ohio, what I went through yesterday. All set up and done by people with a gun, badge and helium tank attached, that enflated their small heads. There are reasons why people feel like this. Hatred is learned not born within. Instead of fueling the fire by calling people names, try to understand why the hate and maybe you can make a differance by showing people things dont always have to be like that. But I can tell that, you as an officer doing what you just did is not doing any other officers favors. I can see why cops ? everything, I see no problem with that, but for them to accuse me the way they did is wrong not everyone is bad and I dont deserve to be treated the way I was because of someone elses actions. Every person and ever situation is differant. Everyone desrves to be treated fairly, accusing me because of the actions of others is no differant then the same logic used be the KKK. All its doing is lumping everyone togther because of the dislike of a few. Same here, I was treated like a criminal and accused of lying because someone else lied to him. He would have never even known I had the animal had I not told him. I was entering the park, not leaving a blind man could have seen what and why I was there. So I guess an important lesson was learned here. NEVER COOPERATE WITH LAW ENFORCMENT, PLEAD THE 5TH AND LAWYER UP! I am not saying that I will fight them or commit any crimes, from here on out I will just simply, plead the 5th and lawyer up. Because telling them the truth sure didnt get me anywhere. You guys wonder why everyone lies to you, I wish I would have lied to him because being honest only brought me more greif and maybe cost that turtle his life. I just hope for the animals sake that it has a very good sense of direction because there is atleast a mile of nothing but hills from where it was realesed to the lake. and if it went any other direction I am sure its already dead in a feild as its 97 degrees here to today with a heat index of 115. I really doubt an aquatic turtle can last very long out in that direct sun with no water. I dunno but take care Jason
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Jason & Danica
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not to throw gas on a HUGE fire, but, don't you think YOU could have written that turtles death sentence? You took it upon yourself to move the turtle more than a few feet from where it was. I'm sure it knew where it was before, and you decided to relocate it... not knowing what would happen during the time in transit. You could have gotten into an accident (maybe not your fault, maybe it was), you could have had your cars engine die and be stranded miles away from the lake (yes, i know your cooler had water in it, just playing devils advocate here) or you could have been pulled over by someone who didn't see your plan as you did and placed the turtle a mile away from a fresh water source in a strange area. You should have taken these possibilities into consideration before moving the turtle more than just across the road.
Again, not coming down on you, just playing devils advocate a little...
jb
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Jonathan Brady
My Kingsnake Photo Gallery
If removing the animal from the place I did was a death sentance then yes I did it and will do it again. Had it made it to the lake. The animal would be fine, it may be there and may be fine. It was a conservation officers, not a regular cop, a conservation officer who should have known better. What is the point of having consevation officers when they make you endanger wildlife its their job to protect it right? I asked him if he would take it to the lake but nope he wouldnt, only a mile away but wouldnt. While he had me pulled over several other officers stopped by to see what was going on so I can only assume he was in a hurry to get to the donut roasting convention in the center of the camp ground and thats why he couldnt take a couple minutes to do the right thing. The road the animal was found by was a large highway. When I find animals there I make a point to reloacte them somewhere safe. There are some small ponds(a ways away from where this one was found) that I assume they area migrating back and forth between as some dry up in the worst of the summer. I could have moved him to the other side and for a time being he may have been fine but considering aside from these small ponds there is nothing else for miles( i dont know exactly how far the pnds are but they are a good distance.) in time like the rest he would have wound up back out in that road. Early summer the are found crossing the road coming from the south going north, end of summer all the turltes are found coming from north going south. Happens every year, twice a year that section of road is full of dead turtles. So with that in mind would you have reloacted the animal? We relocated a large snapper year before last to this lake. the tail end of his shell was broken, the tips or sorta the spiked scuts by his tail, I assume from being hit in the raod as he was alomts dead when we found him. The raod was so hot he was cooking in the center. Last year( a year later) we seen him while fishing and he looked 10 times better and was within a couple hundred feet of where we realesed him. So maybe you wouldnt reloacte them but I will continue to do so.
>>not to throw gas on a HUGE fire, but, don't you think YOU could have written that turtles death sentence? You took it upon yourself to move the turtle more than a few feet from where it was. I'm sure it knew where it was before, and you decided to relocate it... not knowing what would happen during the time in transit. You could have gotten into an accident (maybe not your fault, maybe it was), you could have had your cars engine die and be stranded miles away from the lake (yes, i know your cooler had water in it, just playing devils advocate here) or you could have been pulled over by someone who didn't see your plan as you did and placed the turtle a mile away from a fresh water source in a strange area. You should have taken these possibilities into consideration before moving the turtle more than just across the road.
>>Again, not coming down on you, just playing devils advocate a little...
>>jb
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>>Jonathan Brady
>>My Kingsnake Photo Gallery
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Jason & Danica
Classic Dums
"If removing the animal from the place I did was a death sentance then yes I did it and will do it again."
And you're concerned with the law enforcement guy's lack of concern for the turtle?
"Had it made it to the lake. The animal would be fine, it may be there and may be fine."
You base that on what, now? Surprisingly enough, chelonian welfare is a little more complicated than them doing well if you just put them in a place you think looks good. Studies of relocations in chelonians have shown they don't stay where you leave them. They go back to where they came from, if they can. In all likelihood, you just gave the turtle a few more miles to travel.
Patrick Alexander
">>"If removing the animal from the place I did was a death sentance then yes I did it and will do it again."
>>And you're concerned with the law enforcement guy's lack of concern for the turtle?" I was being sarcastic!
>>
>>
">>You base that on what, now? Surprisingly enough, chelonian welfare is a little more complicated than them doing well if you just put them in a place you think looks good. Studies of relocations in chelonians have shown they don't stay where you leave them. They go back to where they came from, if they can. In all likelihood, you just gave the turtle a few more miles to travel."
Many species I would agree, snappers however are like the bermese of turtles. Put them in a good place with plenty of food and they sit and chow. I released one with a damaged shell in this lake 2 yrs ago last yr I seen it only a few hundred feet from the release point, doing great! When I was younger we caught tons of snappers of all sizes and released them in a man made lake my grandfather had, year after year they were most all there. Maybe a few left but I would say safely we could acount for 75% of the animals time and time again. As a teenager I did alot of hunting and fishing. The fishing I did was for snappers. I never seen the excitment in bass, trout etc fishing. I was always after that 50 pound snapper. there were times when I would spend 5 nights a week after snappers. In that time I learned alot about them. One thing I did learn is that as far as beong relocated along as it was an area that couls sustaine the animal, they didnt care to go anywhere. One time up in Mass. I did finally catch that 50 pounder and to this day still have his shell. We made ALOT of turtle soup outta that big guy. That was all in days past though. Its been 10yrs since I have hunted of fished for turtles. After joining the Army (11 Bravo, Infantry)killing animals for sport just lost its excitment to me. Take ot for what you will but I am not at all naive about the habits of snappers. I probally know more about there habits then I do the habits of Dumeril's boas. Anyway this is a dead topic that is getting old, I will continue to save animals from the road whether its cost me money or some people do or dont like it.
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Jason & Danica
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"Many species I would agree, snappers however are like the bermese of turtles. Put them in a good place with plenty of food and they sit and chow. I released one with a damaged shell in this lake 2 yrs ago last yr I seen it only a few hundred feet from the release point, doing great! When I was younger we caught tons of snappers of all sizes and released them in a man made lake my grandfather had, year after year they were most all there. Maybe a few left but I
would say safely we could acount for 75% of the animals time and time again."
Now that's interesting. The studies I'd seen were with (IIRC) painted turtles and box turtles. And with timber rattlesnakes. Maybe you do know what you're doing, then. But, then again, given the data available in the scientific realm, the most reasonable course for DNR types would be to frown on relocations generally.
Patrick Alexander
Just wondeing how you'd feel if you lost someone close to you because some guy was going over the speed limit in the park. OK, you might not have known about the limit, but aren't there any signs? If not, well you would expect the guy to let you off / argue your chance in court. But, at the end of the day, you WERE speeding so I guess you just have to feel yourself lucky noone was hurt.
Re the turtle. There are laws in place to stop people simply moving animals from place to place. However stupid they may seem sometimes, they do have their reasons. Honestly, you should have simply helped the turtle 'cross' the road, to where it was heading (and do so next time, not relocate it). About the officers actions, well yes, pretty stupid.
Anyway, hope you're feeling happier now!
I could see your point if I was in the main part of the park. There is one road that leads in then the camp grounds are on differant roads. The road and area he stopped me in was a 3/4 mile straight away with feilds along side and nothing else. So I see where you are comng from but there was nothing there, no camp sites no kids playing etc. Trust me if I was in areas where there was people present I would have been driving slower. I have an 18 month old myself and if someone where to go speeding past him in inside the park Id probally rip them out of there car and beat them into oblivian. But where I got pulled over the speed limit could safely be 55, seriously. After the first 3/4 of a mile the road goes down into the woods and from there splits off in 3 directions. One leading to the lake and the other two leading to camp grounds on either side of the lake. From the split on through to the camp grounds and lakes you dont want to speed because there are pople and children everywhere. So if you can picture that youll see why it wasnt that big a deal and as I said above I would have paid the speeding fine no prob. So no one was in danger!
I only moved the turtle a few miles from where it was found. I dunno about snappers but most reptiles the distance from where I found till I released it would be considered home range. So its not like I had carried it hundreds of miles possibly infected the local animals with something theve never seen before.
>>Just wondeing how you'd feel if you lost someone close to you because some guy was going over the speed limit in the park. OK, you might not have known about the limit, but aren't there any signs? If not, well you would expect the guy to let you off / argue your chance in court. But, at the end of the day, you WERE speeding so I guess you just have to feel yourself lucky noone was hurt.
>>
>>Re the turtle. There are laws in place to stop people simply moving animals from place to place. However stupid they may seem sometimes, they do have their reasons. Honestly, you should have simply helped the turtle 'cross' the road, to where it was heading (and do so next time, not relocate it). About the officers actions, well yes, pretty stupid.
>>
>>Anyway, hope you're feeling happier now!
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Jason & Danica
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When I worked at Castle Mountain Mine in east San Bernardino County, Calif. we would encounter desert tortoises on the mine access road. By regulation we were not allowed to relocate the tortoise, other than moving them off the road, in the direction it was headed, by a couple hundred feet. Desert tortoises have very specific territories, burrows, wallows, etc. and to move them even a mile or so down the road would be life threatening.
Now obviously snapping turtles don't come from as harsh an environment as the Mojave Desert, but the fact remains they do have territories and 'home turf' familiarity. The likely-hood of them surviving a move is very good, nevertheless they should be relocated in the immediate area that they were found.
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Nature - the original Master Planned Community!
Hearing it from your side of things it definitely looks like the Wild Life cop was wrong, but try and look at it from his point of view……
You were 12 miles over the posted speed limit, and traveling at over 50% over the post speed so the stop was legit… I don’t know where you are so I don’t what Law exactly you are dealing with nor do I really know if the Snapping turtle is a native to your area or an introduce animal, but I will work along the lines of it being a native animal for the sake of the argument.
The Wild Life officer has no idea that you are an avid reptile keeper. Snapping turtles are very commonly poached for their meat and from the sounds of it, your turtle was a good sized one. You admittedly told him you had the turtle, but you were keeping it in your cooler with your other food? This must have raised a question or two with the Wild Life officer. As for the explanation of releasing it into the Sate park there is two trains of thought on it.
A) he simply did not believe you, as you may have guess cops get lied to on a regular basis and it tends to make us suspect of everything, our training is to expect the worst case of everything and be happy if it turns out better.
B) or you may have broken the law by simply releasing the animal into the park. Because the animal is not from the State park, every time someone releases an animal from another area into the park, it threatens the wild life in the park. The animal may have a parasite or pathogen that is not common to the park and may introduce it to the native animals in the park. Here in FL it is required to get permission to release native animals in State Park just for that reason.
C) The possession of the animal in a State Park or anywhere from that matter with out a fishing License is a violation regardless of the intention of the animal. FL also regulates native turtles with fishing licenses but there is something on the books about possession of two or less animals?
D) Point of origin and point of destination or two standard questions for any Law Enforcement agency, so asking you what you were doing in the park is not uncommon, it is just part of the man’s job
I would go ahead and take the ticket to court and explain to the Judge that you intentions were noble and that you meant only to save the life of the Turtle and not to harm him. I am not sure what the fine for the violation was. Here in FL our speeding fines are outrageous, so many time I will write a lesser fine (such as seat belt which is only $46.00) instead of the $173.00 speeding fine. He may have giving you a break with out you even realizing it (assuming that you did not get the speeding ticket because you did not mention it).
More than likely if you take it to court, your officer may not even show up, our State Guys are notorious for that in South FL.
Good Luck and I hope it works out.
Jim Hopkins
Hello, no there was no food in the cooler about 1 inch of water. My comment above was about the food, I was trying to say he would have thought there were hotdogs in the cooler if I hadnt told him otherwise. Like I said above I would agree with his point of veiw had I been leaving the park but I had just entered. He just had ego all about him. The ticket amount for speeding and the animal are the same, so he may have been doing me a favor but the way I was treated the fact that he couldnt take his lazy rear a mile down the road and realse in a proper place etc are what really gets me. As far as introducing it I was only a few miles from where it was captured. Many species of reptiles thats well within their home range. When ever we find some we try to find a safe place as close as posible for concern of pathogens etc. Snappers are native. The ticket was because I didnt have a fishing lisnce and had the turtle in my possesion. But anyway thanks for the reply, Im going to contact a lawyer on monday and go from there. Id rather throw $300 at a lawyer to beat the charges then $75 at them for bogus crap. Anyway thanks Jason
>>Hearing it from your side of things it definitely looks like the Wild Life cop was wrong, but try and look at it from his point of view……
>>You were 12 miles over the posted speed limit, and traveling at over 50% over the post speed so the stop was legit… I don’t know where you are so I don’t what Law exactly you are dealing with nor do I really know if the Snapping turtle is a native to your area or an introduce animal, but I will work along the lines of it being a native animal for the sake of the argument.
>>The Wild Life officer has no idea that you are an avid reptile keeper. Snapping turtles are very commonly poached for their meat and from the sounds of it, your turtle was a good sized one. You admittedly told him you had the turtle, but you were keeping it in your cooler with your other food? This must have raised a question or two with the Wild Life officer. As for the explanation of releasing it into the Sate park there is two trains of thought on it.
>>A) he simply did not believe you, as you may have guess cops get lied to on a regular basis and it tends to make us suspect of everything, our training is to expect the worst case of everything and be happy if it turns out better.
>>B) or you may have broken the law by simply releasing the animal into the park. Because the animal is not from the State park, every time someone releases an animal from another area into the park, it threatens the wild life in the park. The animal may have a parasite or pathogen that is not common to the park and may introduce it to the native animals in the park. Here in FL it is required to get permission to release native animals in State Park just for that reason.
>>C) The possession of the animal in a State Park or anywhere from that matter with out a fishing License is a violation regardless of the intention of the animal. FL also regulates native turtles with fishing licenses but there is something on the books about possession of two or less animals?
>>D) Point of origin and point of destination or two standard questions for any Law Enforcement agency, so asking you what you were doing in the park is not uncommon, it is just part of the man’s job
>>I would go ahead and take the ticket to court and explain to the Judge that you intentions were noble and that you meant only to save the life of the Turtle and not to harm him. I am not sure what the fine for the violation was. Here in FL our speeding fines are outrageous, so many time I will write a lesser fine (such as seat belt which is only $46.00) instead of the $173.00 speeding fine. He may have giving you a break with out you even realizing it (assuming that you did not get the speeding ticket because you did not mention it).
>>More than likely if you take it to court, your officer may not even show up, our State Guys are notorious for that in South FL.
>>Good Luck and I hope it works out.
>>Jim Hopkins
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Jason & Danica
Classic Dums
The lawyer thing is a waste of money really. i would think you would do better by just explaining what you were doing to the judge and ask to waive the fine. Lawyers only look at the laws and to the letter of the law you are gultiy of the possesion of the animal, the judge has the power to use common sense though and it won't cost you $300.00 bucks
good luck
Jim
i would be very bummed at the dnr agent,but there is a season on snappers here,maybe he was thinking you were going to keep it out of season?i don't know i wasn't there,but as far as the cop saying so and so is a idoit on this forum,is out of line,so was the other guy for saying just beat him down ,lol you just can't go and do that,the way of the old west is gone,i would take it to court,and see what happens,maybe next time that dnr will think twice about writing some guy a ticket w/ his kid,about helping a turtle out,,never know though its worth a try,,i have friends that are cops and dnr's that are too,but i would say there is a good % that are not like reg. people and think they are better then us,,,hope it works out for you,,Greg
With the bad comes the good,the good comes the bad,but i'm gonna live my life like i should
Don't try to fight it. The judges aren't as stupid, but they are just as, if not more, ick-de headed than the police. Lawyers just want your money. They can get charges/fines reduced, but unless my freedoms on the line, I won't do anything to support their livelihood.
File an IAD report. If that doesn't get it resolved, just pay the fine and be glad that you are not him. It's better to be a 'high-ranking' human.
Jason, you could have been fined twice. He did you a favor.
Yes, he probably didn't trust what you were saying, or maybe he did. And I (if I were an officer) would have let you go, or probably helped you out in some way, but I wouldn't have had to.
And actually, I was driving down the road the other day and picked up a turtle in the middle of the road and helped it across to where it was going so it wouldn't be hit. Had I been ticketed by an officer for that, that's ok. I would have paid the fine and just have known that I did the right thing and that I would do it again in the future. Kind of a civil disobedience type thing. Actually, I would have gone to court (WITHOUT a chip on my shoulder), explained what happened to the judge, see if he would see my point, then I would have paid the fine.
But anyway, this was meant to be a one sentence reply, so I'll shut up now...
Best of luck and I'd recommend taking Hoppy's advice. And thanks for doing what we all know to be the right thing...
Jonathan Brady
With environmental laws becoming more and more stringent these days it is likewise becoming precarious to be in possession of wildlife without the appropriate licenses, permits or paperwork...even for common species. Does that stop me from helping an animal in the road...not necessarily, but I know that technically I'm breaking the law if I'm caught with it. Kinda like fishing without a license...even if my intent was "catch and release".
A number of years ago I lived in Las Vegas and worked for a mining company just inside the California border. I was one of the Environmental Technicians and our job was to do ecological restoration (revegetation) of the disturbed mine-site with native plants. Amongst our many duties was to salvage Joshua Trees and other native succulent plants for re-planting.
I wanted to do a native landscape at my Mom's house there in Vegas, to save on her water bill. I thought it would be cool to use some of the bigger Joshua Trees (beyond the size range we used for revegetation) in her landscape. I talked to the folks we worked with at BLM, they didn't have a problem with it, so I paid my fees and obtained collection permits.
Now, one of the problems in the Las Vegas area is that due to the overwhelming construction going on landscaping with native plants is big business. It isn't unusual for landscapers to go out in the desert and illegaly dig up cactus and yuccas for use in these landscapes. Unfortunately they go on public land too, which most of the land east of town is (Lake Meade National Recreation Area). The Park Service personnel are on a rampage about people digging up big areas of plants on the public land and they've started a pretty big campaign, stirring up the local law enforcement to participate, in arresting anyone caught stealing plants from public land.
So here I am one Friday evening coming home from work with my pile of Joshua Trees in the back of my pick-up, heading for Vegas. Wouldn't you know it, a Nevada Highway Patrolman pulls up behind me, eyes the load in my truck, and throws on his lights. He just knew he had a bad guy and was ready to haul me in. Fortunately I had made copies of my permit and gave him one of them. He was not a happy camper, and was still very suspect even with permit in hand, but he eventually let me go. I tell ya, I figured I was going to be calling my wife from jail for awhile there. The officer had quite the attitude but under the circumstances he felt he was justified.
So yeah, the snapping turtle incident sucks but I think you gotta look at it from a little naturalistic viewpoint. Does the energy expended equal or exceed the energy gained in getting wound so tight about this. Truthfully, had you not been speeding you likely wouldn't have been pulled over and no one would've been the wiser. Your honesty bit you in the butt...so from now on you're going to lie? The cop had an attitude...I'm sure none of us have never had an attitude once or twice!!! Sure we all want to be respected but respect is usually earned, not demanded...so why should a stranger respect you? Because you're human? Because you're a nice guy? Because you're an American? The real world my friend, is a much harsher place.
Anyway, that's just my $0.02...no biggy! Peace
Steve
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Nature - the original Master Planned Community!
