Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I have a pair that are 04's. I just fed them small rats for the first time on the 2nd and they are already all over their enclosures looking for food! I don't want to "over feed" them because I was told that it will drastically shorten their life span. Thanks for any replies,
Tom

Hey there!

My thoughts are this:

That is great that you are concerned with overfeeding them, as that is a practice that does bring results that can be unhealthy and sometimes fatal. Just as obesity can hurt humans, it also can hurt your snakes.

One question: When you say small rats, what exactly are the size of the rats? An 04 pine will in no way be able to eat a small rat, as in 50 grams in weight, but possibly would be able to eat a pinky rat, like 3 to 5 or 6 grams.

Most of my pines will get one meal every 7 days or so. My biggest pine ( 6 foot ) gets a meal every 10 or 14 days, as does my biggest bullsnake and gophers. Their weight maintains very well. The meals are enough to leave a bulge, but not much bigger than the biggest part of their girth on their body.

Once a week works out great, but if you take a look and the snake seems to be a tad heavier than normal, skip that meal and wait till next time. It will not hurt them and they will still grow. In the wild, they are not able to have access to weekly diets like our captive bred pets do. They take any meal they can, and that can be every 2 or 3 weeks. Even with that schedule, they will still grow.

It is very easy to be eager to get our pines into breeding size as soon as possible, but then we always should keep in our minds the question," What is best for our snake?"

My baby Ocean Co. northerns I picked up in Daytona in August have grown appr. 6 - 8 inches since then with once a week feedings. My male adult Burlington Co. northern grew 5 feet in 3 years with once a week feedings, and that was sometimes me skipping his meals as well. His mother lived to be 24 years old, being born in 1979, and bred till she was 22 or 23. The secret? No power or speed feeding and keeping the weight in mind as she was fed all her life.

Hope this helps! Good post!

Billy

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Genesis 1:1

That was a lot of intersting advice/experience, thanks!!

I have an August '04 Kankakee Bull, and she's a great eater. I've been feeding her twice a week, two fuzzies at a time. She has good size and is thick but lean. I'm getting ready to switch her to rat pups, she ate her first one this week. She digested it quickly and has defacted about 3-4 days later. However, they make a pretty big bulge and I think I'm going to continue to dish out the fuzzies to her for a couple more weeks. I'd say she was about 18" when I got her in Oct and she is now around 25".

My plan is to continue to feed her twice a week for a year or two and then switch to once every 7-10 days. I have no expectations to breed her, but am looking forward to a big bull.
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Matt from Minnesota
Cornsnake, Eastern Kingsnake, IL Bullsnake - all girls.
0.1 Crested Gecko "Camey"; 1.0 Crested Gecko "Spots" RIP

"My baby Ocean Co. northerns I picked up in Daytona in August have grown appr. 6 - 8 inches since then with once a week feedings."

I used the new digital camera to measure mine with serpwidget(for the first time,so I have no base line) and the girl is 27" and boy is 25". Yours?
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Lloyd Heilbrunn

Palm Beach Gardens, Fl.

Lloyd,

Yeah..mine are about the same, averaging about 26 inches or so. How are yours doing???

Billy
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Genesis 1:1

Mine seem fine.And the fact that they are growing at the same rate that yours are convinces me I am feeding properly! Thanks.
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Lloyd Heilbrunn

Palm Beach Gardens, Fl.

I can't imagine feeding small rats to any 04's of the pituophis variety yet... Either they are truley freaks of nature or maybe they are part burmese python... How big are these 04's that you are feeding small rats to? I would be curious to know...

Thanks,
Eric

They are captive born 04's from Russel Keys. I started feeding the mice within 2 days of getting them. I fed them 2 mice a week untill last week. They ate a small rat that is about two and a half the size of any mouse I ever seen. I would guess that they are about 3 feet. Within three days of eating they defecate and are looking for food again. When I say "they are looking for food" I mean they are moving all over their enclosure. Russel I am looking forward to getting another female for my group. Last year I purchased female #17 and would like to get her sister from this years stock. Last years are doing great if you couldn't tell. They are getting a lot of red.Thanks again Russel,
Tom

The pines are 3 feet? I dont think those are 04.

As for the "looking for food" I think they are just exploring. Mine do the same thing, and have even turned down meals while out exploring. They come out every single day, even a day after feeding. This does not mean they are hungary, it means they are more interesting than kings or corns! Stick to one feeding a week, and dont overdo it as they may regurgitate if the meal is too large. Good luck!

I was wondering the same thing Metalpest. 3 feet and being 04? Able to eat small rats? Heck...my 5 footer from the exact same bloodline that his northern pine is from wouldn't be able to eat small rats. What he may consider small rats vs. what rodent companies say small rats are may be really different in a big way.

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Billy
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Genesis 1:1

BUT! what I'd call a small rat, a couple weeks past weaning rat...would be WAY too big for my babies. In fact that's what I feed my adult Pines. But yes, I sure was surprised when I took them up against the tape measure, I can't believe they are that long! My female is 30 inches, and the male not quite stretched out, is easily 33, probably 34 inches...he wouldn't sit still for long. I feed them once a week, and they can handle just weaned mice without a problem. And are only fed one mouse per week. And oh, Matt, yeah, I can vouch for Toms animals being O4's...as he got them from me. The only thing I can figure is, they came out of big parents, and BIG eggs, and are June babies, so they've got six months behind them now... But I'd sure be nervous about the fact that they can handle small rats!
Russell Keys
Keys Reptiles

I thought my yearlings were around 30 inches, maybe I should measure them again.

Hello Tom!
My hold backs are doing great! I am stunned to hear yours are eating small rats??? Holy cow! But I just stunned myself when I measured out my two youngsters....I tried to stretch them out along my tape measure...and the female is already 30 inches long, and my male, I'm sure would reach 34 inches long!!! And I only feed them once a week!!! Sometimes I skip! Heck if I know what happened...But apparently they are fast growing, and we do have to remember these guys are six months old already. June babies! Anyhow, drop me a line in late May, or early June if your still wanting another. I'm sure I'll have some! Take care!
Russell Keys
Keys Reptiles

I dont have a digital camera but my brother does. The rats are from rodent pro and are between 45 to 60 grams.

Are you sure those are 04' pines slamming 45-60gram rats and not freakin anacondas??!

Eric

Let me get this straight:

You say you are feeding 45-60 gram rats to a 04 northern pine(s) that are only 3 feet long? If they are 3 feet long, then they are only 8 inches longer than my 04 northerns that are eating big fuzzies. How are those snakes able to eat that, when that size rat is what I feed my 6 foot pine?

Even if this is possible...it certainly is not healthy for them. You may want to rethink this, especially after you stated in your first post that you don't want to risk overfeeding them and hurting them. Feeding them rats of that size contradicts that statement.

Billy
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Genesis 1:1

I posted the question in order to see how everyone feeds their pines. The last thing I want to do is harm them and I am not looking to breed them asap if ever so that is not an issue. Thanks to everyone who replied and I am going to try and post pics asap.

I think a good rule of thumb is to wait at least one day after they defecate their previous meal. That way, their digestive system has one whole day of complete rest. Usually that will equate to feeding every five days. I have never had problems feeding babies on that schedule, and definitely seem to get more growth than a weekly schedule. As long as you don't feed more often than that, there is no danger, especially with Bulls and Pines, and especially after they're several months old.

P&S Pituophis