Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I’ts only cute till wake up!

Is it really asleep or is it stressed at having a rat crawling on it?

In the many years I have been keeping reptiles, both snakes and lizards, I have never once offered a live rodent to any animal. And I've never had an animal that wouldn't accept a dead one.
I remember once when I was at a pet store, a guy had brought in an Emerald Tree Boa that he had given a live mouse to and left it overnight. The snake was dead and looked like a piece of corn on the cob from all of the bite marks. This once beautiful creature was now a meal for a mouse. You would think a predator would protect itself from such an attack, but obviously they are not always able to do so.
I just can't see putting any of my charges in a situation of danger.

Just my opinion.

Your right…
I never tot about this when I posted that photo, NEVER leave live food unattended.

I feed mostly live but sometime dead, my monitors seems to prefer live foods (instinct I guess?) I don’t feed rats large enough to inflict damages, If I do I knock them unconscious.
All my snakes are fed thawed preys. Thanks for the info

ha ha ha ha ha beware of killer pinkies attacking monitor mouths

alex

Use your noggins, a fuzzie rat is not going to hurt anything. Unless its allowed to growup in the cage and become a vicious live killer rat. I would not leave adults rats in with snakes or monitors.

On the otherhand, I feed mostly mice, and I throw live adult mice with all sorts of monitors and at times the mice live a few days( fall to spring) And they have yet harmed any of OUR monitors.

So making sweeping generalized rules like you did is very silly. Wouldn't it be simply better to have keepers use their heads and learn what can be left in and what cannot.

I know I am sensitive to this type of protectionist additude, you know, don't do this, don't do that, don't, don't, don't. You know what that gets you??? It gets you a bunch of nothing.

Why not just use common sense and learn not to leave live adult rats in with a small monitor, but leaving a fuzzie rat with a medium monitor, please. Also, use common sense, do not leave live food in with a sick monitor, this is where I believe most accidents occur. But then, doing that is not really an accident. Is it? FR

Frank,
As I said at the end of my post, it was just my opinion. Since this forum is frequented by a large number of beginners, I felt it neccesary to draw attention to the POTENTIAL danger. A newbie that sees that pic might not pick up that it is a weanling rat and may get the impression that it WOULD be alright to try with an adult. As far as letting the keepers use their heads and learn from their mistakes, those mistakes can be costly. Wouldn't it be better for them to learn it here on this forum than to find a dead or injured monitor the next morning?
I meant no insult to Jobi, my concern was the misinterpetation of the pic by beginners.
And it is a BEAUTIFUL monitor. I would love to see some pictures of it when it is awake!

First, Its common knowledge that what you said is your opinion, what else could it be. What I responded with, was my opinion. So to say, its just your opinion, does not change a thing.

Next, you seem to have added all on your own, the words, "learn the hard way". I said, wouldn't it be better to allow the keepers to think, as in, "use your noggin". No one suggests they should allow a large rat to kill or damage their monitor, I simply suggest giving information that allows the keeper, newbie or otherwise the ability to think, decide, and apply.

With that said, the newbies here are not normally babies, they are normally teenagers. Are you saying, teenagers do not have the ability to think?

If newbie keepers would learn to think("use their noggin" early in their learning curve, they would surely have a much nicer road to go down. This surely is not rocket science, its mostly very simple common sense. With monitors, I think success is directly related to the keepers ability to make decisions. Not follow preset instructions.

You sir, have also changed the reality of the picture. In your last post you mention a rat weanling, that is not a weanling, thats a large fuzzie. Weanlings have open eyes and are ready to be weaned. That rodent was not ready to be weaned. I do understand that it does lose its effect if you say, rat fuzzie, as far as being dangerous.

This whole exercise is based on this, if you felt concern, you should have told the truth. And that is, while its safe to leave a rat fuzzie in a monitor cage, its not safe to leave live adult rats in with reptiles, they have been known to cause damage. That would have been great and those that did not know, would have have a choice to use their noggin.

Also, you added, you never feed live food. I disagree with this. A large part of monitor behavior is how they kill their prey. Also, possibly more importantly, how they react to their prey is a direct relationship to their health. In other words, their feeding responce is a barometer of their current condition and a tool to understanding what your monitor is doing. To not feed live prey is to, disallow what a monitor is and to throw away another tool in which to learn about your monitor.

From another view, maybe leaving live large rats in a cage should be OK. Remember, they are designed to live with all sorts of predators and are in constant contact with them. Its possible, it means our cages are not allowing monitors the ability to protect themselves by being able to avoid the live rats. But that is surely a thought and task for the advanced keeper, not the beginer. Thanks FR

I think theirs a lot of different experience keepers can share on this subject, thru the years iv had very few rodents bite accidents but iv seen plenty from other keepers, even experienced keepers, its easy to understand how these can happen rodents almost always turn around and bite defensively, should a keeper feed the wrong size pray, then damage will be easily inflicted to the monitor. Its also true that husbandry plays a major role in avoiding such accidents, however even in very large cages I have seen medium rats climb up branches at knight to nibble on my croc’s tails, this can be avoided by simply leaving a few pieces of rat chow in the cage but still it demonstrate a potential threat. I see no reasons why rodents would hesitate to do the same with monitors in borrows.
Pictured is a fine example of typical defensive behaviour, peoples should understand that without my presence and my huge camera (flash) this rat wouldn’t have the time to bite as this monitor was distracted and lost his drive, monitors normally have no problems killing there preys without being hurt, however many times in captivity they are stressed by our presence and will grab the prey and hold on till we are gone (this is bad) a problem with 90% of fresh indo imports. Sorry for the rambling guess I am bored today =baby sitting

Bored? I am a stay-at-home Dad and it took me forever to write my last post!
Enjoy your boredom! (he typed as the baby cried in the background)

The reiteration that it was my opinion was in response to you referring to what I said as a "sweeping genralized rule", which it was not, nor was it meant to be.

We are in agreement that, yes, it would be best to encourage the keeper to think and decide on their own actions. What we are trying to do is give them food for thought (no pun intended). That was my intention from the start and I am sorry it was not taken as that.

Newbies can be any age and age has nothing to do with "using their noggin". The ETB I mentioned was owned by an adult, but obviously not a "thinker".

I apologize for using the wrong terminology regarding the rat. No manipulation of reality was intended.

Let me clarify my use of live foods. I did not use live rodents with my snakes and use only live invertebrates with my monitors. I never use meats, canned foods, can-o-whatever, etc.

Thanks for the exchange!

Those weanling rats are killers, hahahaha

That doreanus is looking gorgeous as ever. Did she wake up and eat yet?

No he kept sleeping! But I did remove the rat pup just in case.

monitor is he, thats not a fluffy new pillow.

Its my male from Bewani Mountains.
It looks like a type of doreanus, without the skittish hyper mode.
Man you’d love these guys, maybe next year I can ship you a pair?

yes I know of them, they look better everytime you show them.

Have they started breeding yet for you? I'd be down for them.

Well my female is gravid but its from a regular doreanus male, I don’t know what will come out of this? However this young male should be good to breed by next summer.

I am not sure what will come out of them eggs, but either way it will be a nice monitor. You could get some looking like either, or all of them looking like a mix of both parents.

Definatly keep (me)us posted on the progress with them.

Yes I am very exited about this, especially sins Iv chosen a male with a deep blue ail. I just hope she’s gravid. Sure I will email you in due time

I feed alot of live prey and have watched monitors and Frilled Dragons swallow there prey when it still seemed to be alive. Watching this has made me wonder if anyone ever had an instance there a rodent has been alive and hurt a monitor from the inside.
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Ed

There are chameleons, pythons, and monitors in my jungle room.

This is by far the most beautiful monitor i never saw...I didn't saw much but enough to know they are my favorite

My guess is you will see them again very soon! hopefully you will better care for them this time my friend.

No problem Steeve...You know how much i love them. unfortunatly, i was not the one to be hurt with my mistake but at least i learned...ho yes, i learned
Take care