Reptile & Amphibian Forums

First, my set up is a ten gallon, temps are 75-85 degrees night and day respectively, I give him twelve hours of light at a time, a hide on each side, clean water at all times, aspen shavings, climbing branch, and the enclosure is in a quiet area with minimal vibrations. Second, the snake kept in this set up is an '04, was wild caught, and brought to a pet store where I bought it.

That being said, my obsoleta is having difficulties. It's bowel movements never looked quite right, or at least not the same as my guttata's. Sometimes they were reddish, like there was undigested food in it, but most of the time they were black. Furthermore, it seemed to defecate more than I fed it. This past week it defecated four days in a row. I thought this was strange, but he seemed to behave normally. He was very active, alert, tongue flicking, was afraid of me when I put my hand in the cage, and then once he smelled me or whatever, let me pick him up. He was curious, loved to climb on both his branch and me, not to mention around the cage itself. All his sheds have been perfect, he's got a VERY strong feeding response, has never once refused food, has always been fed in a separate container with no substrate in it, he uses both hides and seemed on the surface healthy, despite his odd bowel movements.

I started to notice it didn't look like he was growing. My girl has another obsoleta that was originally the same size - we bought them at the same time, and the same guy sold them to the pet store. Her snake looked to me like it was bigger than mine, though she disagreed. That got me worried about the bowel movements, thinking maybe there was something wrong with him. But sinced he acted and fed normally, still I did nothing.

So, I fed both my snakes a single pink on Thursday, and this morning I woke up and found that the obsoleta vomited (they're in separate enclosures, so I know it was him). He hasn't moved out of the hide at all today.

What it comes down to is that I don't have the money to take the little guy to the vet. Until I have that money, I don't know what to do. I mean, I know not to feed him for ten days, and not to stress him, but aside from that I haven't got the foggiest idea. Anyone have any advice? Anyone have any ideas as to what could be wrong?

In desperation only...........find a feed store and try to get some Panacur paste. It is a forgiving medicine where dosage amounts are not too threatening.......in other words if you give it too much there should be no harm done. Try to the weigh the snake, and find someone to help you figure out a proper amount of meds for it. If it has a belley full of parasites Panacur should help. Try to find someone who has the book Understanding Reptile Parasites by Roger Kingenberg. It is usually about 10 bucks and well worth the cash. In the future you may want to invest in a syringe, stainless steele ball tipped feeding tube, and some meds. You could actually score everything I mentioned for under 50 bucks total. Panacur paste comes in a large tube and is not expensive. Under 20 bucks,,,,maybe even closeer too 10. If you have too you could carefully open the snakes mouth, put the end of the tube in as far as possible and try dosing it that way. It is much easier and more effective with liquid panacur but you can only score that from a vet. Also the feeding syringes or tubes can get the meds closer to the stomach but this emergency method I told you about may just do the trick. Be careful not to scratch the inside of its mouth....Once a week for 2 or 3 weeks may clear him up. It is worth a shot. A vet will probably cost you no less than 75 bucks and they will want you back one or 2 more times after that so as I said.......this method is the cheapest way and is only to be done out of desperation. I am not a vet....and if you can try and find someone experienced to help you with all of this. I was told by a friend[who is not a vet either] that the dosage for a 100 gram snake was a dab of panacur about the size of a raisin. I hope this helps and hope others correct me if I have said anything wrong. Tom Stevens

Thanks, Tom. I've seen your posts in the kingsnake forum - I kind of hover around that board because I really like kings and am thinking about getting one in the future - and you seem like a pretty knowledgable guy. I'll see what I can do about getting that paste.

By the way, you mentioned parasites - does it sound like parasites to you? That's the reason I mentioned that it was wild caught - I figured that meant there was a good chance it had parasites of some kind.

Since it sounds like you are considering adding at least one more snake to your collection, I will put my 2 cents in and suggest that you avoid wild-caught animals in the future. Also, avoid purchasing from a pet store that sells wild-caught snakes. So many wonderful animals are bred in captivity that there is very little need to gamble on a wild-caught one. Ratsnakes and kings especially are very reasonably priced as captive-bred specimens, and it seems to me that lots of folks wind up spending much more to "fix" a wild-caught snake than they would spend on a captive-bred specimen. If there are any reptile shows that come near your area (click on Events above to see) they are a great place to find both value and variety. Purchase from a reputable breeder and your chances of problems are way less. Also, you will need to make sure that there is no cross-contamination between your w/c snake and any new one(s). Good luck with your snake. Most of what I have read on these forums over the years has suggested to me that it is very common to have to treat w/c snakes either by a vet visit or as suggested in the other post. Perhaps you could schedule a fecal examination in the very near future. Duffy

Yes sir, as Duffy also mentioned Wild Caughts in general can end up costing more in the long run. Parasites can also pop up in clean captive born collections...which is why I recomended the book. For example snakes often defecate right in their water. If they drink that water they can get parasites. Some people even feel just walking into a dirty pet shop to buy feeders can mean bringin cooties back home with you on your shoes or clothes and especially from the rodents you may have purchased. The great thing about this stuff Panacur is it treats a few different common parasites. It is quite safe and effective and seeing your in a bind may be a good solution for you. Please email me at NokturnelEclipse@aol.com I have some other things to mention, if you have AOL Instant Messenger I am online often, try n catch me good luck, I hope you cure the snake as that is a very good feeling when you do! Tom Stevens