Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hi everyone, was hoping someone could guide me in the right direction! I have a horrible decision to make.
I've been keeping reptiles, namely lizards, for about 3 years. My brother worked at a reptile shop here and subsequently collected a lot of reptiles too, though he was more into snakes. He had quite a collection but recently got married and to make a long story short, he got the ultimatum from his wife... her or the snakes. He was able to sell his yellow anaconda and two jungle carpets to some friends, but couldn't find an immediate home for his pair of coastals and didn't want to sell them back to the shop. To make another long story short, I ended up with a beautiful pair of Coastals and a huge custom enclosure, lights, rheostats, all the furnishings for FREE. The female is 4 years old and pushing 9 feet. I used to handle her once in awhile before she became mine and do not have a problem with her. He's had years of experience with snakes and says she is by far the most docile snake he's seen or owned. The male is a different story. He is about 2 years old and I've only handled him a handful of times. He's a bit "jumpy" I guess you would say. According to my brother, he's only bitten once, and that was because someone did something stupid like reached at him right after he'd downed a rat. These are the first snakes I've actually owned personally, so the tables have turned quite a bit. I was used to handling snakes whenever I felt like it, now it seems like a requirement. My brother insists the key to keeping him tame is handling him every day at least for a minute or two and he should mellow out with age as the female did.
The problem is, I don't trust him. Since I'm a first-time owner, I still haven't mastered "reading" into these animals. I can't tell their moods by just looking at them as I can with my iguanas. I don't even know if they really have differing personalities as my lizards are capable of having. I feel that if I don't handle him every day he will become "mean", but honestly, I am scared of him. I get very freaked out by him getting anywhere near my face, but I don't feel that way with the female because she usually isn't darting around like he does. I know that the majority of snake bites occur because the owners made a mistake, but I just don't know what he's going to do. My boyfriend just plain doesn't do snakes at all. He's terrified of them, even the female (most likely because of her size, because she is very tame). It's hard enough to get him to hold a gecko!
I don't know if I should force myself to spend time with him and try and suck it up and overcome this, or if I should sell him. As ridiculous as this sounds (yes, it sounds ridiculous even to me!), I do not have a phobia of snakes, but a phobia of being bitten. I absolutely cannot stand the idea. But I can't let him sit in his enclosure and be ignored and have the potential of lashing out at me whenever I try to reach in and clean his home or reach in to take the female out. I work for the local Humane Society which is another major factor. I know how some people mistreat their pets. I wouldn't want to sell him to an owner that could potentially be one of those types of people.
If you got to the end of this, thanks for reading it! I am very torn up about this situation and can't make this decision alone! If you have any advice for me I would appreciate it SOOO much!

Tara

As silly as this may sound I think you need to get bit!!!
Not that I ever want to see a fellow herper get bit but that would more than likely cure the phobia if you had an exact idea of the worst case scenario. On another note my female is very calm and has bit on more than one occasion whereas my male is extremely nervous, and very jumpy but never even offered to bite me. As far as being able to tell beforehand it is almost impossible in an animal that cannot express itself with its voice or facial expressions. Like I pointed out previously body language is far from reliable in snakes. Lastly if you are needing to find them both a good home, as I have no need for a single male, please feel free to e-mail me.

"As far as being able to tell beforehand it is almost impossible in an animal that cannot express itself with its voice or facial expressions. Like I pointed out previously body language is far from reliable in snakes."

Why do you say that? I personally feel that reading a snake's body language is an acquired skill and is very useful. I find that I can read just about any snake by it's body posture and movement. Maybe its just a thing that comes with time. I am interested in why you feel differently.
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Jim Kuroski

I have to agree with Jim. I have learned to be 100% accurate in telling when I'm going to get bitten. A snake's posture, stance, head direction, and various other body signs will always tell you if a bite is coming your way.

but I guess we finally disagree on something Matt. I feel there is nothing in this hobby that is 100%. Especially when it comes to predicting a predominately wild animals behavior. I will however agree that body language will let you know 95%, maybe even 99% of the time if a bite is coming, there are always exceptions to every rule.

.....after several years of keeping snakes I have come to notice signs of certain behavior that allow me to realize what is going to happen. In other words, I'm not saying that I never get bitten, but when I do it is something I have almost always expected from the snake. I have no surprises, or at least here lately I have had no surprises. But you are correct, there are NO absolutes in this hobby, just almost absolutes

Jim, the main reason I feel differently is the fact that I have been bitten by snakes that have shown absolutely no signs of aggressive behavior beforehand. Like I said in my previous post, my female is generally very calm, almost never takes a strike pose and has bitten more than once. My male on the other hand being a very nervous young man, acts as if he would love to eat me, yet has never bitten. While this may not be the norm it does happen. In the majority of the snakes I have kept over the years I would have to agree with you they do act very differently before biting, most times I've been bitten I knew it was coming beforehand, but if that were always the case we would never get bitten (unless we had to handle an aggressive specimen). My best example I can give would be my buddies sub-adult burm calmly slithering up next to his wife, opening her mouth and latching on to her side. Again this may not be the norm but has happened, and more than likely will again. Another example I can give is one of my old bcc females latching on to my shoulder for seemingly no reason. Again this may not be the norm but does happen.

That makes perfect sense. I thought that you were more on the thought that it wasn't an indicator at all.

"I find that I can read just about any snake by it's body posture and movement."

I have also been bitten at least one time that comes to mind for no obvious reason. I had a large female coastal out and put her down to grab something. When I delicately reached down to pick her up, she twisted around and hit my hand so fast that I actually just stood there in disbelief for about a minute.

Good indicator yes, 100% accurate no. Glad we worked that out. I think we are all in agreement now.
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Jim Kuroski

In no way was I saying you can never tell when you are going to get bitten. Just that sometimes when you are bitten, you have no indicator that it was coming.

>>Hi everyone, was hoping someone could guide me in the right direction! I have a horrible decision to make.
>>I've been keeping reptiles, namely lizards, for about 3 years. My brother worked at a reptile shop here and subsequently collected a lot of reptiles too, though he was more into snakes. He had quite a collection but recently got married and to make a long story short, he got the ultimatum from his wife... her or the snakes. He was able to sell his yellow anaconda and two jungle carpets to some friends, but couldn't find an immediate home for his pair of coastals and didn't want to sell them back to the shop. To make another long story short, I ended up with a
>>

What I have been doing with my rescued coastal is to wear a face shield and thick clothing. If you're really worried about getting bitten, face shields are cheap (I got mine for $5 at the local hardware store) and work well. I'm more paranoid about getting bit in the eye than anything else.

-cat
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Lower Ground Reptiles

www.lowergroundreptiles.net

I dont think they will become aggresive if not held daily...i dont hold my snakes daily and they are fine.
I would keep them away from your face though....that would not be the best place for a bite.
It will just take a little work and i am sure you will get more comfortable with handling them.
good luck

Jason

So basically everyone's saying I should stick with it!
But I have a few more questions. A couple of you are debating on whether or not a snake gives warning before a bite. I'd like to think with most animals, you usually get some type of warning whether it be a dog raising his bristles and growling or a cat pinning it's ears back and sinking back on it's hind legs. (As you can tell I deal with waaaaay more dogs and cats than I do "exotics"!) I can always tell if I'm about to get whipped by my iguana by his body posture and movements as I come near him. In my experience (not necessarily with snakes, per se), "wild" animals are often unpredictable and act without warning. Since these snakes were previously handled regularly by their owner since they were young, I'd like to think they are accustomed to humans reaching in and touching them or handling them. While a quick flash of a hand could easily be mistaken for a scurrying rat, do they generally have keen senses and are they able to tell that you are not their food?
For example, I can place my hand against the glass and immediately get the male's attention. He will perk up his head and dart toward the glass, flicking his tongue, and will follow my hand if I move it side to side, but he never strikes at my hand through the glass. If I were to attempt to reach in at that point, would he realize that I am not a rat and just allow me to go about annoying the crap out of him?
I was told that the easiest way to remove them is to first "show" them that I am not food by introducing something else such as a long stick (which I use to remove the female most times). I've been told they will realize this is not food and I can slide my hand down the stick and gently and slowly remove them. My brother used the example of his hat. He took his hat off ("smells" like him) and as they came up to see what was going on, they'd smell his hat (him) and realize he's not food. He was then able to reach in. Is this a good idea? Does this make any sense at all?
For those of you that feel that you can tell when a snake will bite, what are the tell-tale signs? What type of body posture or activity should I be aware of?
And lastly, what to do when a snake does bite? I've heard you should never try and pull them off until they release their grip because their teeth will rip through your skin if they've bitten very deep. When they bite humans, do they tend to immediately try and constrict as they do their food? And..... how bad does it hurt? I KNOW I'm being a big sissy about all of this! Thanks for your patience!!!

Sounds like to me that the male expects food everytime someone approaches the cage. To let him know that you aren't a prey item the stick idea is good, or you could get a snake hook. Just gently touch him with it and he should realize that it's not feeding time.

There are never any 100% accurate ways of telling when a snake will bite(cause someone called me out on it earlier), but if you are around them enough you will learn each individual snakes behavior well enough to predict what its next move will be. I can't give a list of things to look out for cause all snakes are different. I have one jungle that bluffs striking at me everytime I enter the cage, but she has never followed through. To most people, including myself, I would assume she is going to bite when she puts herself in the "S" striking position, but funny thing she has never struck at me, she just bluffs. On the other hand I have one small coastal that will tuck it's head amongst its coils and then explode in furry. That's not a typical striking response from carpets. So just try to learn each snake because just like us they all have different buttons. In order for you to feel comfortable handling them just hook one out and transfer it to your hands once out of the cage. That way at least you'll know if you have a hungry snake or a defensive snake. If it bites you after you have hooked it out and have it in your hands then you have a defensive snake, which is far different that hunger strike. If it latches ahold of you and wraps ts coils around your arm like it would a rat then you have a hungry snake and you need to start praying really hard....lol. Until it realizes you're not food it ain't letting go, which sometimes means you'll have to resort to other methods to get it off. Soetimes they stay attached for half an hour or more, and trust me it's very uncomfortable. I'm not trying to scare you cause this is an extreme situation, but be aware it does happen. And NEVER jerk away if you are bitten, it'll hurt the snake badly and you may end up with a few stitches yourself. Just stay calm and take it.....it's far less painful to let them puncture your skin than to tear it. Good luck!

I think that anticipation of the bite can often be worse than the actual bite. I don't like getting bitten and I made a stupid feeding error once with a 7 foot Burmese. She latched on to the inside of my forearm. She was so fast and those teeth were so sharp that the initial bite hardly hurt at all. They say not to pull away when a snake bites you and, you know what, you can actually stop that reflex, saving you and the snake additional injury.

I got a friend to turn on the tap and I ran her head under room temp water until she got tired of her "shower" and let go. (My cousin squirted some Jack Daniels around his kingsnake's mouth when it bit him and that caused it to let go). The teeth hurt a bit more coming out than going in, but it still wasn't bad. The pressure of the bite was more than I expected but, again, it wasn't a terrible ordeal.

My wife (who's not afraid of snakes but isn't a snake lover either) was holding a rainbow boa for me while I was bagging another snake. It unexpectedly gave her a defensive bite on her bare shoulder (still have no idea why it did so). I turned to see blood welling up from the puncture marks. While she wasn't happy with the situation, she'll still hold a snake if I request it. It stung but obviously not enough to cause her to avoid snakes forever.

While being bitten isn't great, your expectation of a bite is probably worse. Hope this helps ease your mind.