Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Just when I get some financial breathing room to add some new stuff, I can't find what I want. I was looking to buy some 100% het for albino and they keep getting sold before I can even send out an email...I guess if ya snooze, ya loose! Oh well I'll wait for the new hatchlings (and my tax refund) so I can get a couple!
-----
www.hullabalooherps.com

He has been buying tons of het albinos lately, I do not know if he has bought hets of anything else but he has bought an arsenal of het females and albino males. I think he bought a twenty lot from one guy alone. Quite possibly has more hets than anyone else now, notbreeding age, but in a few years, he will probably be the biggest mass producer of albinos out there.
I know he has set aside about 500-1000 normal females to breed to his huge amount of pastel males.
-----
"Quality isn't Quality without customer service so I guess I sell quality"

Why would someone even want to do that....oh sorry...he wants to kill the market to make all the money he can....cause remember thats what we're all here for right?.......
-----
Luke Martin
Bronze Serpent Reptiles

So what do you think would happen to all those het albino females if he didn't buy them? Someone will buy them and produce with them so I don't see it as making too much difference to the market, it just raises the price of het females now and concentrates albino production more later.

Now maybe with the pastels it might make a little more difference because if say 30 male pastels ended up with 30 different small breeders rather than one mass producer maybe they wouldn't breed each to as many normal females but then again maybe they would. I think the ratio I heard for one mass producer was 10 normal females for every pastel male but then I've heard of a small breeder trying upwards of 20 normal females for one pastel male so who knows if the mass producers will even have an effect on the production of pastels.

Maybe the mass producers will put twists into the market by having more of a say in pricing but even there I'm not sure they will make as much difference as some might think. They can't really set a higher price because there are so many smaller producers by then and they also probably will not bother with one at a time sales but go for volume sales to distributors or directly to big pet store chains. Of course the pet stores will double the price for retail and it will be back higher than what the smaller breeders will sell for direct.

Basically I don't see the mass producers as being greedy or having as much of an impact as some might think. All the morphs are still getting used for breeders right now regardless if one big breeder has 30 of them or 30 small breeders each have 1 the production rate will be about the same. If someone wants to shoulder a big share of the work and investment that is necessary for the inevitable proliferation of ball python morphs then let them.

no matter how many or what price..someone will buy everything anyways....right......

and even if Bill sells them all really cheaply....some other people will buy them and resell them for more than they are worth..thus providing expensive balls to stupid people......like there always has been.......

.....so...shop around....help the little guys...and when possible ....help yourselves to the big producers numbers...like Bell and Barczyck......hey.....even little guys like Ian G have a whoooole lot more animals at their home than you think........alot more than all the "big breeders" you talk about in here.....

big?.....yea..I guess some of them could stand to lose some weight...as for numbers....lots more people doing things we never hear of.......

......have fun..

oh....by the way...hets are out there....so are albinos...people just don't look or ask in the right places.......
-----
.................

Yep...they are out there, I think I may have found what I was looking for. Small quality breeders are a little harder to find than the "larger" names out there. Not to mention it seems like I may be slow on the response because I like to do a little "checking" before I send my money to anyone. I don't know if anyone has plans to corner the market on anything, I don't know that the would work considering how many morphs there are out there and something new is always (seemingly) just around the corner.
-----
www.hullabalooherps.com

To me it is NO BIGGIE if BILL is wanting to MASS PRODUCE ALBINO Ball pythons, I don't think any ONE breeder could MASS PRODUCE any BALL PYTHON much less ALBINO's, They JUST DON'T HAVE ENOUGH EGGS for that. YEA If they were Burmese Pythons that produce 30-70 eggs MAYBE. BUT any BALL that only produces 3-16 if your lucky, I don't see it happening, PLUS if he is buying 04's then he's looking at 2-3 years before a female is large enough to even produce 4-6 eggs, Also if she is a 100% het then your looking at only 2-4 albino balls if your real lucky, If anyone could mass produce it in my opinion would be Pete, Ralph, BHB, or some of the other larger breeders that have been doing this for a while. What did ralph get this season 90 something cluches, and how many Albinos did he get? And the price is still around 2,000. In my opinion it's NOT gonna happen. Thanks David

You could not be more wrong. As it stands Bill has more albinos and hets than anyone in the country combined if he dose have that actual amount. And trust me he probably does as he IS a mass produceer of almost everything else.
He has purchased whole quotas for animals lately. 400 Blue tongue skinks, 100 or more Somali Uromastyx, and lots more.....he is not playing around.
It doesnt mena the market is crashing, he has a few years....but like someone else said, the cheaper they are the larger the market.
-----
"Quality isn't Quality without customer service so I guess I sell quality"

None of those female albino hets would have been pets anyway, they would have all been bred even at this stage in the albino market, only difference is who breeds them, not the number of albinos produced.

When 1000 people bred an albino to a het the price still will be around 2000.but when an individual breeds 1000 hets the price will come down.

We'll probably never be able to answer for sure because who knows what the price would be in 2-3 years without this particular mass producer project (you really think it would have stopped going down at $2,000 after 13 years of declines?). I'm thinking there will be less competition and perhaps even higher prices due to concentrated production. Those 1,000 breeders would have been competing with each other and everyone else. Now it's just one person competing with everyone else. On top of that, I doubt he will bother with individual sales for time reasons. A lot of communications goes into each individual sale and shipment and it just takes too much time to do thousands and thousands of them a year AND manage large-scale production. He'll probably sell in big lots to a small number of pet store chains, exporters, distributors, and resellers who will all have markups before selling to the individuals that the rest of us will be selling to.

hype about what one breeder might or might not do to the market of ball pythons. Ball pythons not leopard geckos or Corn snakes, Geckos lay tones of eggs several times a year and Corn snakes anyone can breed and they clutch 2-4 times a year also. I know people who have gotten 80 eggs in 4 clutches off one female corn in 1 season, I am pretty sure that cannot be done with Ball pythons. It just is NOT gonna happen, Ball pythons take time.I am just gonna watch and see what happens, I bet the market stays strong for years to come. See ya David

The REAL breeders who aren't in this for the money...won't mass produce mutations like this...because they are busy crossing the mutations with others. Most big breeders are looking for the next big/cool thing...not just producing the crap out of what is already there....
-----
Luke Martin
Bronze Serpent Reptiles

Luke, you are probably right. I suppose if you have a facility large enough to accomodate that many snakes it may be he's just trying to come up with a 'new' morph.

The real breeders are not in it for money? Have you ever read what Ralph has written. It is ALL about the money, nobody spends boatloads of money like the "real" breeders for just a hobby.
They WANT to make money...that is the whole point, real breeders ENJOY the animals and CARE for them, and make good money doing it.
Bill Brants goal is to supply breeders with stock....he is a breeders breeder, like Reptile Industries.
He is a supplier to dealers of thousands of colubrids, leopard geckos, etc.
He wants to produce hundreds if not thousands of pastels and albinos for the pet trade, he deals with petco all the time and has contracts with them to supply him, and ball pythons getting popular to the general public like they are, are going to be mass produced for the pet stores and dealers.
The price is going to drop overnight but he will for sure be cheaper than RETAIL, market price.
-----
"Quality isn't Quality without customer service so I guess I sell quality"

I Personally would love to see albino ball pythons in petshops for under 2k. People like albinos, and at the moment the "best" (read cheapest) in most petshops are albino burms. Most people who buy them however, are not prepared to care for it. This follows the same route as the "best" (again read cheapest) lizard being the iguana. I have wanted an albino Ball python for a long while now however being a college student all I can afford Is a single 100% het. just bought for christmas (thanks Chris Simone) and a single normal female. Why should the public not be able to enjoy a few morphs of such a wonderful animal?
-----
1.0 100% het albino ball python
0.1 normal Ball python
0.0.1 uromastyx (Styx)...he is a rescue

Personally - I've heard too many horror stories about the treatment of snakes in petshops to want to see them there. Period. Putting these beautiful creatures in the care of someone at Petco scares the hell out of me, most of them can't tie their shoes let alone properly care for a ball. It's discusting, that's why they don't sell dogs and cats anymore the public was sickened by the puppy mills, now they're going to do it with snakes!!! Imagine how many times a day that $2000 albino is going to be poked at and tapped and harrassed, yeah that'll be healthy snake. Of course - Thats just my opinion.
-----
Tosha

1.1.0 Ball Python (Harry and Fluffy)
0.1.0 Siberian Husky (Kita)
0.2.0 Feline (Pippen and Pandora)
0.0.1 Dessert Tortoise (Pope)
5.4.2 Fish (1,2,3,4...)
0.0.1 Frog rescued from pool skimmer
0.0.2 Lizards rescued from pool skimmer

If only Petco knew that 99.9% of all their ball pythons were males. Who is going to walk into Petco and buy a $1000 snake. He would have to sell it to Petco for $300 for Petco to sell it for $1000. Is he going to also replace those that die within 30 days? I don't think so. Let's give Petco management more credit than to buy some animal for $300 and try selling it for $1000. That's going to be a hard sell for Mr. Brant.

Also consider how easy it has been to steal from Petco. I have know tons of those that work in Petco, Pet Supermarket and PetsMart and I have hear stories. I have even sat there and seen surveillance video and try to identify the perpetrators.

JMO

Hopefully this ain't true, but greed is pretty much everywhere.

now why would that be greedy?........

.....

.......everyone is greedy.........
-----
.................

I would not think they would sell them so cheap with the work that is involved.(dont worry about pet store pricing )Why give them away just be competive.
My 2 cents,Kevin

N/P

I've been looking into the 100% albinos too, like you they're sold right before I get the money out. Occasionally one or two will pop up with the smaller breeders tho. I'm thinking about just waiting until there are a billion albinos out there this winter and they're going for next to nothing and the breeders are dying to get rid of their stock.

-----
Tosha

1.1.0 Ball Python (Harry and Fluffy)
0.1.0 Siberian Husky (Kita)
0.2.0 Feline (Pippen and Pandora)
0.0.1 Dessert Tortoise (Pope)
5.4.2 Fish (1,2,3,4...)
0.0.1 Frog rescued from pool skimmer
0.0.2 Lizards rescued from pool skimmer

....will not be going cheap....the albinos right now average $2000 to $2250.......and people are not dropping them.....

.....they aren't actually selling them ......but read the classifieds..they are the same snakes..over...and over and over again.,.........

....

....there are hets out there and albinos........all over the place........
-----
.................

Bill pays for hets, Bill does what he wants with them. It's that simple.
-----
Chad Bachman

WOW, this went on a tangent I didn't expect! I have found 1 of what I am looking for and some leads on some other interesting animals. But here's the deal, the price on these snakes WILL GO DOWN. It is simple economics...when supply exceeds demand the price will drop. In this hobby the price actually drops for other reasons, like a new (better morph) shows up, or breeders have to move stock to make room for new stock. An example: I talked with a leo breeder in a chat on the OTHER forum and he mentioned that he had bought some of Ron Tremper's albino leos when they 1st came out in the 90's, at a price of about $1000 or $1200 (don't remember exactly) within a couple of years he sold it for about $100 (may have been less), now you can barely give away tremper albinos because the interest has shifted to other morphs. I know leos are different, but the concept is the same...eventually albino BPs will be cheaper. I like them because they are nice looking snakes and will be an interesting example of genetics for my biology students.
-----
www.hullabalooherps.com

Leos and Balls.There are many more variable in balls than leo's.I agree the price will still come down But everything does would you wanna sell a albino for 2000 this year or 3 albino for 1500 each?The lower the price the larger the market.

The comparison was made to make a point...I stated in my post that leos are different from BP's. However, the concept is the same. The real question is how much will the price come down.
-----
www.hullabalooherps.com

Yea we all know that ALBINO ball pythons will come down but I do not believe that the market on them or any other ball python is gonna totally CRASH anytime soon. I waved 2,000 cash in several peoples faces in Daytona this year and NOTTA, NO one would sell a Albino that cheap. I finally got one but it was not a cake walk, I spent a lot more than 2,000 in a group deal to get my albino male. Just my OPINION...DAVID

No one is saying the prices will "crash". re-read the post. The prices will come down just like with other "popular pet" or "morph" of the moment. Hell, albino burms were once expensive and the price is now bargain basement type prices. And yeah I know, burms are different...the concept is the same.
I am not surprised that you had difficulty finding an albino at Daytona for $2000, it seems the venders there have a habit of jacking up the prices on lots of stuff at that show. I have seen albino males, not hets, for well under $2000. But it looks like you got 2 really nice snakes, best of luck with those.
-----
www.hullabalooherps.com