Reptile & Amphibian Forums

down below.I got in a little late and its already buried.

I really liked alot of the comments that a few of you made but there were others that need to be straightened out.
The Hypo stillwater bull was brought up several times (a great example b.t.w)and I have used it recently in another forum as well.I think it was Tom (Forgive me if I am wrong)that said he hopes that they (I guess that would be me?)weren't going to be breeding it into other morphs?Why not?It is so much better looking than the generic line of hypo.I will try and break it down for you guys.

Until now the stillwater bulls have come from a single pair of bullsnakes that were rescued from a rattlesnake roundup in stillwater Oklahoma.If you have noticed there are no "hets"for hypo stillwater bulls? We had this happen on the pit forum last year.There is a guy (I won't name names)that advertises bullsnakes that are het for "stillwater hypo".Once you have bred a stillwater to a non stillwater they can no longer be a stillwater in any way shape or form?period!
Now,Thats the locale end of it.

Now,on the other side of the coin(morph side)you can breed a stillwater to a miami county kansas axanthic (locale of no importance)and produce TRUE dbl het for ghost bullsnakes.The reason I say true is that what we call ghost bulls in the hobby today are really just hypo whitesided.The same is true with the snows in the hobby today,they are just albino whitesided.We could make actual snows or probably blizzards since we have axanthics.We are still going to keep breeding the true stillwaters and the true axanthics to always have the locale animals but to have the cool morphs as well within the same groups is the best of both worlds.

The stillwaters have alreay been bred to the Kingsville Reds and to a couple others (top secret) so hold on to your morph butts in a couple years.I just wanted to see where you guys stood cause most of you know where I do when it comes to all the real hybrids,Freeze them or cobra food.

Sorry,I know this is the kingsnake forum and I talked about pits but thats the way it goes sometimes.

L8r shannon

What I was trying to say is if someone bred a Red[that was not from Stillwater Locale] to a Stillwater Hypo those offspring should not be labeled as Red Hypo Stillwaters. That is if the Stillwater locale is to be taken literally, as a specific locale. I am not discouraging it. I actually like those kinds of breedings, it is just the name game. If I made a mistake somewhere[ in this post] let me know. I thought that to make a Red Stillwater Hypo the Red would have to be from the same locale no? ttyl bro Tom Stevens

You are to fast,

Acually,Yes and no.No if it is the first generation?Becasue they would all be normal in apperance.If they were to be bred together and then you get the hypos popping out that are also red then why not?That would let the people know that the stillwater hypo was used apposed to the generic hypo.

The same goes for the stillwater whitesided etc........Its just to let the buyer know (in the future ofcoarse)that the stillwater hypo was used for the hypo half of the genetic makeup.

shannon

I hear ya Shannon. It would not bother me in the least but I would think that some Locale guys would gripe that the Red was not Stillwater so for example they'd prefer if not insist that it be labeled[ and I mean even the Morph} as Red X Hypo Stillwater. Like I said ,,,,myself I would probably say cool! That's a neat cross I would expect to see enter the hobby. But certain people take it too far in my opinion....that's why I am only so sympathetic to locale people anyways. Just to avoid the conflict on a smaller scale I won't call some snakes I produce Creamsicle Okeetees, when I tell people I have them I say Creamsicle X Reverse Okeetees and all offspring are Albino but to avoid conflict[I hate the whining LOL] I play the name game. Tom Stevens

I at times get tired of the endless names that people come up with the worst are the Ball Python guys LOL I mean "Spider Balls" lol too funny. Anyway on Corns when you are dealing with multiple mutations you do have to come up with some kinda name otherwise you are constantly writing or saying Axanthic X Hypo X Albino X ZigZag X Okeetee. You get me ? just for the sake of shorter conversations and ruined keyboards sometimes catchy names are a necessary irritation.

Keith
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I agree Keith. Like I said some people get too carried away with it. Like ...how dare you call that a Creamsicle Okeetee! So for now I just try n keep things in perspective as far what type of customer I am dealing with. I get tired of explainging it to person after person but my favorite Corn breeder suggested I see how the babies look when mature before giving them the name minus the X[WHICH = BY]thingy. Mine did not turn out with white on the borders like as Reverse Okee would have so I am usure as ever. Maybe by spring I will see some difference. I may not even make anymore of those seeing I like regular ol Creams n Reverse Okees anyway. ttyl Tom Stevens