Reptile & Amphibian Forums

A few days ago I lost one of my prized adult female eastern indigos, “Rebecca”
She was very obviously gravid, and had bred several times.

The snake has given me 3 good clutches, she was 7 years old, and upon measuring her after death, was 6’10” long. In 2002, she laid a stunning 16 eggs, 15 of which hatched into perfect babies.

I felt I needed to pass this on:

In 2003, she became swollen but did not lay eggs, and upon examination at the vet through ultrasound, we found one small, underdeveloped egg. This was removed using only a tiny incision.
My vet felt as if she would be fine to breed again.

I gave her 2004 off, and bred her again this fall and winter…so she would have been due to lay in April of 2005. She didn’t make it.

I don’t know if it was the breeding that killed her…looks like she was on the way out anyway.
Here are the Necropsy results as submitted to me:

RIP Rebecca

Abnormal liver with raised, yellowish-whitish spots all over.
One firm nodular mass in the pancreas, appeared caseous upon incision - hardened abscess.
Multiple follicles of various sizes. The entire oviduct and uterus were adhered to the peritoneum, and appeared bloody. More caseous material found in the fat bodies.
One nodular structure which may possibly be an egg yolk - was hard upon palpation and appeared caseous upon incision.

Possible cause of death: Cardiovascular failure due to sepsis due to (egg yolk) peritonitis.

np

n/p

Dean,
Sorry to hear what happened to your female Eastern. I know that losing one is hard.....firsthand. I had a female that was impacted several years back...despite extraction of the yolk/white of the eggs through the body cavity via syringe, and subsequent to that her depositing 11 eggs, and her being given TWO years off, she still died on Oct 1999. Her body was sent to the a vetrenarian , who himself sent it to a pathologist to examine for cause of death.

She had the same cause of death as your female. Cardivascular failure due to sepsis due in part to egg yolk peritonitis.

We can only do what we can...the rest is in Gods hands..

Take care, and again sorry to hear about your loss,

Fredrick Albury

Dean
I remember when I lost my favorite breeder female. She was actually my first ever indigo. It was tough. I had lost others but she was special to me.
I don't know if non-snake folks can understand the loss of a snake, be we sure can.
Take care my friend, sounds like you did everything you could.
GOD bless
Chuck

Dean,

Mere words can not comfort a grieving soul. Time will…

The only thing we can do is let you know that we have all felt your grief. And that we understand your loss.

To some people (most) a snake is a hideous creature. It is a shame these people will never know the gentleness and beauty that we have seen in the Eastern Indigo.

You have seen its beauty and touched it. This life has touched you and you will never forget it. From the first day you held her to the last day of her life she brought you joy.

Dan

My condolences.
Remember the good times.
Also joy in the progeny she has left you who within reside a little bit of her.
Phil

you did what you could do. hope you're feeling better......dan

I, too, nearly suffered a very similar loss; almost identical circumstances. My oldest female, a Chuck Elliott animal, was my very first indigo that I got from him years ago. Her first two breedings/egg layings went flawlessly. I always gave her a year off in between successful egg layings. The third time around, she became egg bound. Like you, it was only one small undeveloped egg that led to some complications; at the time, it was no big deal and she recovered fine. She was as at optimal weight very quickly so I decided to breed her again...a mistake on my part. After passing five good eggs, the last three were completely stuck. Although I scheduled emergency surgery, I decided to manually palpate/massage the eggs out and much to my surprise, they came out but she was very ill for many months following that (probably my fault). She is no longer being bred but I wonder how close to death she was at one time and what long term effects may have been inflicted on her.

Dean, although the loss of this snake must be sickening, there is still so much we just don't know. We know how taxing breeding is on females and that is one of the trade offs for us who have the privilege in working with this species; these things are just going to happen. I personally don't think there was anything you could have done differently to help this snake as I know how well kept they are in your collection. One of my many curiousities is in wondering if wild indigos go through the same types of struggles that captive females go through. Are there certain variables, or perhaps combinations of variables, that interplay with one another to ensure a higher degree of success? All we can do is just share this kind of data as you did, which was very helpful, learn from it, and continue to build our knowledge base about this incredible species.

Dean, sorry again for this loss. Rob

>>A few days ago I lost one of my prized adult female eastern indigos, “Rebecca”
>>She was very obviously gravid, and had bred several times.
>>
>>The snake has given me 3 good clutches, she was 7 years old, and upon measuring her after death, was 6’10” long. In 2002, she laid a stunning 16 eggs, 15 of which hatched into perfect babies.
>>
>>I felt I needed to pass this on:
>>
>>In 2003, she became swollen but did not lay eggs, and upon examination at the vet through ultrasound, we found one small, underdeveloped egg. This was removed using only a tiny incision.
>>My vet felt as if she would be fine to breed again.
>>
>>I gave her 2004 off, and bred her again this fall and winter…so she would have been due to lay in April of 2005. She didn’t make it.
>>
>>I don’t know if it was the breeding that killed her…looks like she was on the way out anyway.
>>Here are the Necropsy results as submitted to me:
>>
>>RIP Rebecca
>>
>>Abnormal liver with raised, yellowish-whitish spots all over.
>>One firm nodular mass in the pancreas, appeared caseous upon incision - hardened abscess.
>>Multiple follicles of various sizes. The entire oviduct and uterus were adhered to the peritoneum, and appeared bloody. More caseous material found in the fat bodies.
>>One nodular structure which may possibly be an egg yolk - was hard upon palpation and appeared caseous upon incision.
>>
>>Possible cause of death: Cardiovascular failure due to sepsis due to (egg yolk) peritonitis.
>>
-----
Rob Carmichael, Curator
The Wildlife Discovery Center at Elawa Farm
Lake Forest, IL

Dean,

i can't imagine what this must feel like. there's always something special about a female who has sacrificed so much.

my condolences to you,

matt

My condolences. A sad day for you. I hope you have some of her offspring or can get one or two back.
:Mark