Reptile & Amphibian Forums

please keep an open mind as you read this, and DO NOT jump to an conclusians, atleast wait till your done reading. as some of you know, i work at petsmart part time. my main dept. is reptiles. i keep all our leos in correct temps, spray them twice a day, feed them 5 crickets each per day, and keep them on upside down repti carpet. what i want every one to kno is that when you go to a petstore and see very skinny, sick, unhealthy leos, alot of the time its not the stores fualt. now im not goin to name the place where we order out leos from, but doing some research, i found out that half of the sick leos out there, is the breeders fault. these breeders have so many leos in demand that instead of adding new blood to the blood lines they keep a few females, and do it again, and again. befor you know it, the breeder is going over 30 generations deep of inbreeding. alot of the very sick leos that you all see, never had a chance from they day they were born, because they were so inbreed. they eat and eat like nothing is wrong, but then outta no where they begin to lose waight(spelling), and eventually die. so im not sticking up for all the stores that dont take care of them, but i am sticking up for the ones that do every single thing in there power to do, and because of the breeder(and yeah, i relize...well if its that bad, then dont order from them. but i say how hard is it to get a new female every couple of generations) they have sick leos. it hurts when every once in a blue moon someone comes in and tells me i dont know what im doing cause of how sick my leos look, when iv done every thing there is to do, including taking them to a diff vets. i thank you all for reading this. and hope that i have given you a diff out look on the stores.

nevin
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.1. green tree python-naga
.1 jungle carpet python-echo
1.1 brazilian rainbow baos-peace&chaos
.1 columbian redtail-trinity
1.2 leopard geckos-killer, sallean,
1. blizzerd lizzard-grim
.1 bell leos-ecstacy
.1 tremper leos-euphoria
.2 vegas leos-freya, shiva
.1. crested gecko-ladon
1.2 bearded dragon-blaze&isis
1. mali uromastyx-chubby
1. sudanese uromastyx-anumbis
2 green Dendrobates auratus-zoate, stricnine
.1 terquise Dendrobates auratus-acid
.1 blue Dendrobates auratus-toxic
.2. phyllobates terribilis-cyanide, arsenic
.2. albino pacman frog- kul, phooka
.1 columbian redtail-trinity
2.0 brothers
0.2 sisters
3 cats-fat max, spiderman, &toby
1 miniture mutt-brutis

all ive got is insane

"dont be afraid to die, only be afraid to not live"

"dont become classified. if you are nothing, then you can be anything."

Yes I agree, and most if not all people here do as well. "Not all petstores are bad, and not all breeders are good." I'm glad your store is one of the good ones.

I agree also. Every store is different, and just because it is a chain does not make it bad. I worked at the Banfield vet that's inside petsmart for years. I got to know the people that worked in Petsmart and the people that worked in the reptile area always seemed to want to learn more about how to take care of the reptiles they had. There biggest problem is that there was no one actually trained that was knowledgable that could start them on the right foot. I told them about all my experience and invited them to come to my house to see my set up and suprisingly three of them actually took me up on it. So I had a lot of repsect that they wanted to at least try to learn how to take good care of the animals they were caring for. So I would have to say when I go in to a "chain" petstore now I don't jump down their throats if I see a sick lizard. Only if I see that they have a completely wrong set up for them do I just try to tell them nicely how changing a few things might help. Just like I said in the post below when I saw Petsmart having troubles with their magnet hides they removed them completely. Okay long post just to say I agree.

I just wanted to say thank you for getting out there and saying this. I too work at a PETsMART store and realize that there are very few of us out there that are truely passionate about our jobs and not just in it for the money.
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0.3.0 Dogs - Delaney, Darcie, Mali
2.1.0 Cats - Dante, Diesel, Dixie
2.0.0 Cockatiels - Toast, Waffles
2.0.0 White's Treefrogs - Splish, Splash
1.3.2 Leopard Geckos - Joey, Phoebe, Rachael, Emma, Gunther(?), Monica(?)
2.0.1 Crested Geckos - Stubbie Mike, Chandler, Ross
0.0.3 House Geckos - Ben, Erica, Jack
1.1.0 Jeweled Curly-Tailed Lizards - Harry, Sally
1.0.0 Chinchilla - Poncho
4.0.0 Guinea Pigs - Rodney, Reese, Ray, Rufus
0.1.0 "Fancy" Mouse - Ella

Not to mention the plethera of fish:
5.0.0 Bettas
0.0.1 Goldfish
55 Gallon Community
29 Gallon African Cichlid
20 Gallon Marine
1.1.0 Ocellaris Clown - Jack, Diane
0.0.1. Neon Blue Goby - Cecilia

1.0.0 Boyfriend - Michael

That's why I wanted to know who their supplier was!! of course, they wouldn't tell me. The Petco near me says they won't take any more albinos b/c they keep coming in blind. At least they are paying attention and doing something about it! Not sure why they won't buy from small knowledgable local breeders? I just don't get it! This iss also I think why we see so much kidney-damaged babies at these chains. Cystolis kidneys are a GENETIC disorder mainly caused (and def made worse) by extensive inbreeding. I'm trying to educate those out there to be on the lookout for this deadly disease.
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1.0 Blizzard Bill
1.0 Hypo stripe 100% het Rainwater from JL (BJ)
1.0 HypoTang from Crested (Apricot)
1.0 Tremper Albino Hypo (Cloud)
0.3 Normal/Hi-Yellow Leopard gecko (Beatrice, Goldie (now w/SD), Freckles, Pepper)
0.1 SHCT Leopard Gecko (Brite)
0.1 Tangy Mutt Leopard Gecko (Rainbow)
0.1 Tremper Albino (Leucy)
RIP Peaches, Ghost

Please educate me re this cystolic kidney disease! Also, what's this about blind albinos? This is the second time I've heard of blind albinos. Do you know anything about that? Is it also a genetic/inbred problem?

oh and, this is just my theory, but as to how Pet* stores pick their suppliers: they are a large national chain so they do things on a large national level. they pick suppliers that deal in large quantities of animals, and SOMEtimes that leads to treating live animals as mere commodities. you know, selling them in "50 lots" and such. quality goes out the window. individual stores dont get to pick their own suppliers I'm pretty sure. so that eliminates small local breeders as possibilities.

my manager wants me to supply the store with all reptiles. but you are correct. we have no say in who we order from. we get a list of 3-4 suppliers, and we choose from the animals that they have.
nevin
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AIM- McChompinator

.1. green tree python-naga
.1 jungle carpet python-echo
1.1 brazilian rainbow baos-peace&chaos
.1 columbian redtail-trinity
1.2 leopard geckos-killer, sallean,
1. blizzerd lizzard-grim
.1 bell leos-ecstacy
.1 tremper leos-euphoria
.2 vegas leos-freya, shiva
.1. crested gecko-ladon
1.2 bearded dragon-blaze&isis
1. mali uromastyx-chubby
1. sudanese uromastyx-anumbis
2 green Dendrobates auratus-zoate, stricnine
.1 terquise Dendrobates auratus-acid
.1 blue Dendrobates auratus-toxic
.2. phyllobates terribilis-cyanide, arsenic
.2. albino pacman frog- kul, phooka
.1 columbian redtail-trinity
2.0 brothers
0.2 sisters
3 cats-fat max, spiderman, &toby
1 miniture mutt-brutis

all ive got is insane

"dont be afraid to die, only be afraid to not live"

"dont become classified. if you are nothing, then you can be anything."

The PetCo near me once ordered 4 iguanas and they received 40!!!!!! what a huge disaster. And the mistake probably wasnt even a blip on the big supplier's radar.

.
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AIM- McChompinator

.1. green tree python-naga
.1 jungle carpet python-echo
1.1 brazilian rainbow baos-peace&chaos
.1 columbian redtail-trinity
1.2 leopard geckos-killer, sallean,
1. blizzerd lizzard-grim
.1 bell leos-ecstacy
.1 tremper leos-euphoria
.2 vegas leos-freya, shiva
.1. crested gecko-ladon
1.2 bearded dragon-blaze&isis
1. mali uromastyx-chubby
1. sudanese uromastyx-anumbis
2 green Dendrobates auratus-zoate, stricnine
.1 terquise Dendrobates auratus-acid
.1 blue Dendrobates auratus-toxic
.2. phyllobates terribilis-cyanide, arsenic
.2. albino pacman frog- kul, phooka
.1 columbian redtail-trinity
2.0 brothers
0.2 sisters
3 cats-fat max, spiderman, &toby
1 miniture mutt-brutis

all ive got is insane

"dont be afraid to die, only be afraid to not live"

"dont become classified. if you are nothing, then you can be anything."

Yah it was a disaster for the iggies. I walk in and see all these iglets crammed into one display cage and their tails are all half dead/dried up and they're all crusty with old shed and stuff. So I (big mouth) start harassing the poor employees who then told me sadly that they'd only set up for 4, only ordered 4, and they got 40. and they were in bad condition when they arrived. They were trying to get the other petcos in the area to take in as many as they could. I took six and gave them a foster home for 3 months till we found homes. p.s. iggies are a lot more work than leos

yes they are. when i was younger i had a record setting 8 1/2' iggy. sadly we couldnt report it as a record, cuase we lived in a city where exotics are illigal.
nevin
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AIM- McChompinator

.1. green tree python-naga
.1 jungle carpet python-echo
1.1 brazilian rainbow baos-peace&chaos
.1 columbian redtail-trinity
1.2 leopard geckos-killer, sallean,
1. blizzerd lizzard-grim
.1 bell leos-ecstacy
.1 tremper leos-euphoria
.2 vegas leos-freya, shiva
.1. crested gecko-ladon
1.2 bearded dragon-blaze&isis
1. mali uromastyx-chubby
1. sudanese uromastyx-anumbis
2 green Dendrobates auratus-zoate, stricnine
.1 terquise Dendrobates auratus-acid
.1 blue Dendrobates auratus-toxic
.2. phyllobates terribilis-cyanide, arsenic
.2. albino pacman frog- kul, phooka
.1 columbian redtail-trinity
2.0 brothers
0.2 sisters
3 cats-fat max, spiderman, &toby
1 miniture mutt-brutis

all ive got is insane

"dont be afraid to die, only be afraid to not live"

"dont become classified. if you are nothing, then you can be anything."

it was probably error on the stores part,not supplier.. iggies could have been being sold in lots say maybe 4 lots of 10 . also could have been an ad or special coming up so they automatically got send extra iggies,and someone ignored that fact and ordered them anyway..
person ordering them could have keyed in wrong.. lots of possibilites could ahve happened. i'm not defending this but accidents can happen..

yeah, I wasnt so much talking about who made the mistake as saying that with a large scale shipper the animals can become just a commodity. They just note a mistake like that in the books as a loss and move on. Not so much thinking about how badly the iguanas would fare. Impersonal (sp?)

Plus they arrived from the shipper in really bad condition. I saw them.. Bad condition that doesnt happen during the trip to the store. that I blame the shippers for.

No one at my store likes this method. We don't get to choose the sex of the animals witch really makes it difficult to order more than one adult of many species. Also we don't even get to see a picture or know the exact size of what we order. The most we can do is take good care of what we wind up with and find it a really good home.
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Emily

1.2 SHTCT (Gus, Baby & Gizmo)
.1 Tangerine (Ziggy)
1.1 Patternless (Zander & Daisy)
.3 Hypo High Yellow (Zoe, Dini, & Munch)
1. Normal (Nelson)
.1 ???? (Unnamed)
1.1 ferrets (Oliver and Delilah)
1. budgie (Max)
0.0.1 Ring neck Parakeet (Kiwi)
1.1 German Shepards (Jake and Abigail)

The Spotted Gecko
**Updated 01-07-05**

exacly, not to mention what happens when i want an animal for my self. i wanted an AFT, but it doesnt say if there wild caught, healthy, or anything. so its kind of a shot in the dark.
nevin
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AIM- McChompinator

.1. green tree python-naga
.1 jungle carpet python-echo
1.1 brazilian rainbow baos-peace&chaos
.1 columbian redtail-trinity
1.2 leopard geckos-killer, sallean,
1. blizzerd lizzard-grim
.1 bell leos-ecstacy
.1 tremper leos-euphoria
.2 vegas leos-freya, shiva
.1. crested gecko-ladon
1.2 bearded dragon-blaze&isis
1. mali uromastyx-chubby
1. sudanese uromastyx-anumbis
2 green Dendrobates auratus-zoate, stricnine
.1 terquise Dendrobates auratus-acid
.1 blue Dendrobates auratus-toxic
.2. phyllobates terribilis-cyanide, arsenic
.2. albino pacman frog- kul, phooka
.1 columbian redtail-trinity
2.0 brothers
0.2 sisters
3 cats-fat max, spiderman, &toby
1 miniture mutt-brutis

all ive got is insane

"dont be afraid to die, only be afraid to not live"

"dont become classified. if you are nothing, then you can be anything."

you being in the reptile position you are should be able to call the supplier directly with any inquiries, when i worked at petco, i'd call CalZoo all the time.. dealers should note most animals as CB if they are..

no. petsmart does not allow it. any email sent out goes to corprate, and they dicide if they want it to go through or not.
nevin
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AIM- McChompinator

.1. green tree python-naga
.1 jungle carpet python-echo
1.1 brazilian rainbow baos-peace&chaos
.1 columbian redtail-trinity
1.2 leopard geckos-killer, sallean,
1. blizzerd lizzard-grim
.1 bell leos-ecstacy
.1 tremper leos-euphoria
.2 vegas leos-freya, shiva
.1. crested gecko-ladon
1.2 bearded dragon-blaze&isis
1. mali uromastyx-chubby
1. sudanese uromastyx-anumbis
2 green Dendrobates auratus-zoate, stricnine
.1 terquise Dendrobates auratus-acid
.1 blue Dendrobates auratus-toxic
.2. phyllobates terribilis-cyanide, arsenic
.2. albino pacman frog- kul, phooka
.1 columbian redtail-trinity
2.0 brothers
0.2 sisters
3 cats-fat max, spiderman, &toby
1 miniture mutt-brutis

all ive got is insane

"dont be afraid to die, only be afraid to not live"

"dont become classified. if you are nothing, then you can be anything."

OK, first off, I'm not trying to be difficult here, but I have already posted quite a bit on this topic before and I'm tryin' to save my fingers. Please run a search for it in this forum and let me know if you need anything else cleared up. I lost my little Peaches to this killer.
As far as the blind albinos go, I have one. There is some talk of albinos being more sensitive, which logically makes a lot of sense to me. Albinism can cause vision problems in other animals expressing the trait, so again it seems logical that the same may hold true for herps as well. I personally am not sure if it is genetic or otherwise, but it seems to me that blindness is indeed more common in albinos. All I can say is, Check your albino vision before you bring them home. Petco got me on this one.
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1.0 Blizzard Bill
1.0 Hypo stripe 100% het Rainwater from JL (BJ)
1.0 HypoTang from Crested (Apricot)
1.0 Tremper Albino Hypo (Cloud)
0.3 Normal/Hi-Yellow Leopard gecko (Beatrice, Goldie (now w/SD), Freckles, Pepper)
0.1 SHCT Leopard Gecko (Brite)
0.1 Tangy Mutt Leopard Gecko (Rainbow)
0.1 Tremper Albino (Leucy)
RIP Peaches, Ghost

Ok I will search. I've only been reading the forum since just before Christmas and I didnt know the info was already out there. thanks.

,
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1.0 Blizzard Bill
1.0 Hypo stripe 100% het Rainwater from JL (BJ)
1.0 HypoTang from Crested (Apricot)
1.0 Tremper Albino Hypo (Cloud)
0.3 Normal/Hi-Yellow Leopard gecko (Beatrice, Goldie (now w/SD), Freckles, Pepper)
0.1 SHCT Leopard Gecko (Brite)
0.1 Tangy Mutt Leopard Gecko (Rainbow)
0.1 Tremper Albino (Leucy)
RIP Peaches, Ghost

Hey thanks for the post Nevin. I also work at a Petsmart and Im glad to hear more people sticking up for the big bad incorporated stores for a change. I'm tired of these stores being stereotyped. Yeah, I'll admit some of the big chain stores are up to par, and that needs to change. But that doesn't mean every employee at Petsmart and Petco doesn't care about the animals in their care. Thanks again for sticking up for us!
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Emily

1.2 SHTCT (Gus, Baby & Gizmo)
.1 Tangerine (Ziggy)
1.1 Patternless (Zander & Daisy)
.3 Hypo High Yellow (Zoe, Dini, & Munch)
1. Normal (Nelson)
.1 ???? (Unnamed)
1.1 ferrets (Oliver and Delilah)
1. budgie (Max)
0.0.1 Ring neck Parakeet (Kiwi)
1.1 German Shepards (Jake and Abigail)

The Spotted Gecko
**Updated 01-07-05**

no problem. im glad to have done it. i worked at a petco for a day, then walked on them because they refused to listain to me. i went to petsmart, and as a chain i feel they really dont care about the animals, with a couple ecceptions. the fish/fish tank rules, reptile enclosures being set up atleast a week in advance, being able to turn down a sale if we dont feel its safe for the animal. but over all the managers do a good job of listaining to us, and trying to get things pushed through to corprate, and alow us to do what we feel/know is right for the animals.
nevin
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AIM- McChompinator

.1. green tree python-naga
.1 jungle carpet python-echo
1.1 brazilian rainbow baos-peace&chaos
.1 columbian redtail-trinity
1.2 leopard geckos-killer, sallean,
1. blizzerd lizzard-grim
.1 bell leos-ecstacy
.1 tremper leos-euphoria
.2 vegas leos-freya, shiva
.1. crested gecko-ladon
1.2 bearded dragon-blaze&isis
1. mali uromastyx-chubby
1. sudanese uromastyx-anumbis
2 green Dendrobates auratus-zoate, stricnine
.1 terquise Dendrobates auratus-acid
.1 blue Dendrobates auratus-toxic
.2. phyllobates terribilis-cyanide, arsenic
.2. albino pacman frog- kul, phooka
.1 columbian redtail-trinity
2.0 brothers
0.2 sisters
3 cats-fat max, spiderman, &toby
1 miniture mutt-brutis

all ive got is insane

"dont be afraid to die, only be afraid to not live"

"dont become classified. if you are nothing, then you can be anything."

I agree but the two chain petstores around here are horrible. while the two non chain pet stores a bit of a drive away which I go to are great.
So I understand why as a whole the chain pet stores have that well deserved reputation.
Rita

i hate the human race as a hole. i hate what weve done to this planet, our mantallety of life, and what we do to eachother and other creaturs. but over all, i look at every one as individualls, if i didnt i wouldnt have a gf, and a couple others i trush with my life. so you need to look at individual stores, not the hole chain.
nevin
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AIM- McChompinator

.1. green tree python-naga
.1 jungle carpet python-echo
1.1 brazilian rainbow baos-peace&chaos
.1 columbian redtail-trinity
1.2 leopard geckos-killer, sallean,
1. blizzerd lizzard-grim
.1 bell leos-ecstacy
.1 tremper leos-euphoria
.2 vegas leos-freya, shiva
.1. crested gecko-ladon
1.2 bearded dragon-blaze&isis
1. mali uromastyx-chubby
1. sudanese uromastyx-anumbis
2 green Dendrobates auratus-zoate, stricnine
.1 terquise Dendrobates auratus-acid
.1 blue Dendrobates auratus-toxic
.2. phyllobates terribilis-cyanide, arsenic
.2. albino pacman frog- kul, phooka
.1 columbian redtail-trinity
2.0 brothers
0.2 sisters
3 cats-fat max, spiderman, &toby
1 miniture mutt-brutis

all ive got is insane

"dont be afraid to die, only be afraid to not live"

"dont become classified. if you are nothing, then you can be anything."

I can actually see that happening. Out of all the animals I have had in my lifetime (I've had over 50 different animals) that I got from pet stores, I've never had any problems with any of them. Well, except for a hamster I had when I was little, but that's besides the point. The only time I have had a serious issue was when I ordered a leo from an online breeder. It was a complete disaster! The first leo I got was DOA, the second leo died 2 weeks later, and 3 of those days he was very sick. I've had my current leo for about 2 months now that I got from Petco, and have had no issues at all. And at least with the pet stores, if you have a problem you can talk to someone about it. My 15 yr old iguana came from a pet store too, and the only health issue he's ever had was his claw got bent back after he got it caught on the fabric of my couch. I will never order another reptile from an online breeder again.
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~*Chibi*~
Sir Iggy ( 1.0.0 El Salvador Blue Iguana), Ryo-ohki, Orion, Bud, & Finnegan (3.1.0 crazy kitties), Rosebud (0.1.0 cockerspaniel), and Kayko (0.0.1 leopard gecko)

no matter what anyone thinks about what you said, it takes a lot of sac to say that. anyways, i agree with you. another friend on mine works at petsmart, and i agree that a lot of it has to do with the breeders selected. the leos aren't well started & are (in my opinion) inferior, probably from females with exhausted resources. though i understand why they don't just go with purchasing from hobbyists, i think they should consider it or switch breeders. or at least, tell the breeder that the service needs to be improved. see what i mean?
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marla
currently: 0.0.9 catfish, 0.1 ferrets, 2.8.3 leopard geckoes, 0.0.13 oriental fire-bellied toads, and 0.2.0 sugar gliders

.
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AIM- McChompinator

.1. green tree python-naga
.1 jungle carpet python-echo
1.1 brazilian rainbow baos-peace&chaos
.1 columbian redtail-trinity
1.2 leopard geckos-killer, sallean,
1. blizzerd lizzard-grim
.1 bell leos-ecstacy
.1 tremper leos-euphoria
.2 vegas leos-freya, shiva
.1. crested gecko-ladon
1.2 bearded dragon-blaze&isis
1. mali uromastyx-chubby
1. sudanese uromastyx-anumbis
2 green Dendrobates auratus-zoate, stricnine
.1 terquise Dendrobates auratus-acid
.1 blue Dendrobates auratus-toxic
.2. phyllobates terribilis-cyanide, arsenic
.2. albino pacman frog- kul, phooka
.1 columbian redtail-trinity
2.0 brothers
0.2 sisters
3 cats-fat max, spiderman, &toby
1 miniture mutt-brutis

all ive got is insane

"dont be afraid to die, only be afraid to not live"

"dont become classified. if you are nothing, then you can be anything."