Reptile & Amphibian Forums

seems there are some misconceptions out there about these animals,first of all there are several people in USA,Germany,Austria and the UK working with pure crawl cays,i am just one of these and have been working with them for 15years now,the colours seen in my stock are not the result of outbreeding with other insular forms,but the result of intensive line breeding to bring out the colours that were noted when crawl cay boas were first discovered by E.Ross.Allen in the early 1970's when they were described as chamaeleon boas due to their ability to change colour and for the range of clours shown by these first imports Grey through pink and pastels to black,all I am doing is bringing out the clours that are carried in the genetic makeup of these animals,the results of which I have posted in this forum and others.Regards to all Gaz

Forgive them Gaz fore they known not what the speak.
This forum is comprised primarily of mutt morph breeders and their lemming folds.
Thanks so much for a rarely seem view of what the true locality breeders of the world have produced.I can only imagine how your holdbacks have turned out ?
No need to waste anymore pics in here.

Breed'em True

Wow, The "Tangerine Phase Crawl Cay" you posted below is "Beautiful" ! Good Luck with your Tangerine Phase Project ! I cant wait till they hit the U.S. Market, Where are you located ? Thank's again for the Info. & the pic. below ! Take Care !
Kenneth
omahasnakes@yahoo.com

I think it is more than a "Boa" issue.IMO we,as Americans forget that there is a whole world of things going on that we are blissfully ignorant to.I know I will draw alot of "speak for yourself" comments,but as I stated,this is merely my opinion formulated by the reaction to someone seeing something that they hadnt ever seen before,and saying this was a fraud.I have seen European Herp mags that show the dedicated efforts going on outside the U.S..We are not alone folks.Lest we not forget our friend Herman S.(LOCALITY NUT LIKE MYSELF)and others like him.Never assume.....you know the rest.God Bless,Marcus

LMAO !!! their getting their @$$'s handed to'em let'em go with it awhile,its about freaking time.

rotf.......

>>I think it is more than a "Boa" issue.IMO we,as Americans forget that there is a whole world of things going on that we are blissfully ignorant to.I know I will draw alot of "speak for yourself" comments,but as I stated,this is merely my opinion formulated by the reaction to someone seeing something that they hadnt ever seen before,and saying this was a fraud.I have seen European Herp mags that show the dedicated efforts going on outside the U.S..We are not alone folks.Lest we not forget our friend Herman S.(LOCALITY NUT LIKE MYSELF)and others like him.Never assume.....you know the rest.God Bless,Marcus

Since you mentioned Germany, Austria and the UK:

In Germany there are some handful people who claim that they own Crawl Cay boas. Some of these animals look that different to Crawl Cays that I ask myself whether the owner is stark blind or stark stupid to even publish it on a website.

Others have crosses who IMHO consist of a Crawl Cay boa and another form of a Central American boa.

In Germany there is only one line of true Crawl Cay Boas. The original animals (wildcaught)were imported from the US in the early 90ies by Volker Franz who produced the first German litter. The second litter was produced by Verena Knietsch in 1998.

As a matter of fact the animals from this bloodline are the only true Crawl Cays in Germany, probably even in Europe.

In Austria I don't know of a single person who has a true Crawl Cay boa. There might be some persons who bought some of the fake German Crawl Cay boas since Austria is adjacent to Germany.

Half a year ago I was offered an alleged Crawl Cay boa from the UK. A strong resemblance was visible, but the animal hasn't had the long shaped head and the very strong muscle tonus of the ture Crawl Cay boas (you would think you seize a bar of iron when you touch one). I doubt the UK bloodline, to be honest. These animals also look like another Central American boa (e.g. El Salvador phase, who has a similar pattern) was crossed with.

As to your boa I don't want to allow myself a judgement. The resemblance in pattern and head shape is there. A further evaluation only from a photo would be careless.

Valid points Herman ! and so are the others.

It seems Hermann's point is valid. Mine however which was one solely on a slight observation is not. Hermann is one of the largest Locale breeders, and a strong defender of such. I have spoken with him before about some of the many boas.

I am still not saying the "Crawl Cays" posted are not LEGIT. I am saying thet there is a lot of validly represented controversy. All points need examined before an arguement can be made. Like wise, proof of such aforementioned points to justify their legitimacy.

As such, you replied first to this thread saying Gaz was right now, it is Herman. Stick to the truth and do not follow favorites in an area you likewise seem to be lacking factual basis. I do not know who is right, and did not say I did. Thus the number one reason for research and gathering of information and all points.

I said valid points not conclusive.

>>Since you mentioned Germany, Austria and the UK:
>>
>>In Germany there are some handful people who claim that they own Crawl Cay boas. Some of these animals look that different to Crawl Cays that I ask myself whether the owner is stark blind or stark stupid to even publish it on a website.
>>
>>Others have crosses who IMHO consist of a Crawl Cay boa and another form of a Central American boa.
>>
>>In Germany there is only one line of true Crawl Cay Boas. The original animals (wildcaught)were imported from the US in the early 90ies by Volker Franz who produced the first German litter. The second litter was produced by Verena Knietsch in 1998.
>>
>>As a matter of fact the animals from this bloodline are the only true Crawl Cays in Germany, probably even in Europe.
>>
>>In Austria I don't know of a single person who has a true Crawl Cay boa. There might be some persons who bought some of the fake German Crawl Cay boas since Austria is adjacent to Germany.
>>
>>Half a year ago I was offered an alleged Crawl Cay boa from the UK. A strong resemblance was visible, but the animal hasn't had the long shaped head and the very strong muscle tonus of the ture Crawl Cay boas (you would think you seize a bar of iron when you touch one). I doubt the UK bloodline, to be honest. These animals also look like another Central American boa (e.g. El Salvador phase, who has a similar pattern) was crossed with.
>>
>>As to your boa I don't want to allow myself a judgement. The resemblance in pattern and head shape is there. A further evaluation only from a photo would be careless.

I have to agree with you. My Crawl has traceable lineage. I've been offered several "crawl cay boas" that were nothing more than hog x columbian crosses or nicaraguan bci. This is why I'm so leery of "crawl cay morphs" nowadays.

-cat
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Lower Ground Reptiles

www.lowergroundreptiles.net