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The german lawyer Horst Mahler is a well-known person in the German neo-nazi scene.

Yesterday he has got a prison sentence of 9 month (without parole, that means he will get in) because he said that "hatred on Jews is a sign of an intact spiritual hygiene".

We all know what has happened 60 years ago in Germany.

In the light of these happenings, what do you think: Is it justified to put someone into jail in this case for 9 months?

Or in your opinion, should his words be covered by the constitutional right to utter the opinion (which is restricted by the law in Germany in such cases)?
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The #1 Boa constrictor site in the world wide web

Hermann,

As someone that is half hungarian(And half black) this is a sensitive issue. I look at the role that ISRAEL is playing in oppressing the lives of the Palestinian people and it sickens me. I also look at the role of our government in giving ISRAEL HUGE amounts of money AND WEAPONRY...so that they can further suppress the palestinian people,

I would say that it dfepends on the context that it was given, what I mean was it said by this lawyer in a court of law, where he could be held for contempt? Then it would make sense, the jail sentence..

But if said that to friends, even if said to the media....as bigoted and as backward as it souded, he has a right to be able to voice his opinion. And Jews who disagree with his racistr butt can voice theirs. As much as I would like to see him sit in jail for a little while, it isnt worth takeing away the freedoms to express ourselvews that we all deserve, as long as it doesnt physically hurt someone else.Or make them feel as if they are in danger.

I wouldnt send him to prison. Id dress him in native clothing and drop him in Palestine. Then he could feel some of the terror that those Palestinians feel every day of their lives.

But again....he has a right to free speech, at least he would here. Hell, if our own President can lie to us via the corporate controlled media, anyone can say anything(Within reason)

fred a

` If you quoted him correctly Hermann, he was talking about Jews around the world, and probably especially in Europe, not just Israelis. If that is correct, I would lock him up permanently, as Germany has no death penalty.
` It is simply about greed and ignorance coupled with arrogance causing hate. Too many people need to believe that they're better than someone else in order to feel worthy. Then, too many of those are willing to believe that those they deem less worthy than themselves have less rights. The United States did that to Africans, Native Americans, Mexicans, and on and on. It's easier to own someone if you de-humanize them. That ignorant dogma created about Africans persists today. It was all started in the name of profit. The Nazis needed scapegoats. The Spanish wanted gold. The British wanted a mercantilist empire. Ad nauseum.
` Now, the Israeli government, and its right wing supporters are doing it to the Palestinians. The truth is: if someone hates you, and you don't hate them back, and you are not willing to run, you are in danger. Now, the Israeli government has become the Nazis of the middle east. But, if they had not, they would have been destroyed.
` It's a damned shame how the human race uses most of its energy to abuse itself. Sadly, it's simply a case of whoever has the wealth and power is going to be the oppressor. That will continue until we learn to share. The current state of political power, and mind-set in the U.S. tells me that we are in for much worse.
` At least keeping giant constrictors can often distract me from the state of this sorry planet. Unless, of course, I visit this forum, dammit. lol

` How about some peaceful coexistence?

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Stop the world-I want to get off!

..

I agree DFR that ISRAEL has become the Nazi state of this century. Their oppresion of the Palestinian people as well as their fight to secure lands allready settled and displace its residence...is appalling in its scope.
But again...without OUR weaponry..none of this would have been possible, in my opinion.

The guy is scum, but you cant lock him up for simply stateing his twisted and demented opinion. If you do that...then I cant state mine!! And we WONT have any of that...now will we?

LOl
Fredrick Albury

I'm not a citizen of Germany, so don't know how meaningful MY opinion is on this matter. I'll offer it anyways. What I think should be done in a case like this:

This person is obviously a mental degenerate and should be forced to undergo a year or two of treatment. This would include counsel and veiwing of footage and history of the concentration camps. Also, he should be made to study and watch video of what went on in Iraq BEFORE the ouster of our friend Saddam (we ALL can see SOME of this by watching a video called "buried in the sand", it is a document of footage found there by soldiers of how Saddams thugs "treated" petty criminals and anyone else that didn't please him or "them". Beyond that.... I don't know, maybe he needs to be permanently admitted to a mental hospital. My opinion.
Thanes Place

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Thane

Thane, I agree with you regarding the treatment and with what you have said regarding Horst Mahler.

Regarding Saddam: I am not sure that the conditions in the Iraqi prisons have significantly improved since the U.S. rules (or try to rule) the country. And it is known that it carries on that innocent people loose their life in Iraq due to Military operations of the U.S.

Piling up naked prisoners and beating them to death (at least one case is documented) isn't apt for a supposedly advanced nation either.
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The #1 Boa constrictor site in the world wide web

Regarding Saddam: I am not sure that the conditions in the Iraqi prisons have significantly improved since the U.S. rules (or try to rule) the country. And it is known that it carries on that innocent people loose their life in Iraq due to Military operations of the U.S.

Piling up naked prisoners and beating them to death (at least one case is documented) isn't apt for a supposedly advanced nation either.

(me)They seem hell bent on dying by their OWN hands or someones.... anyone elses. If we just leave now (I'm starting to think we should) they'll clean THEMSELVES up. That, or extinct themselves. We started it though, so we have to finish it. We'll be there forever it seems. This upcoming election is going to be a complete joke (I hope I'm wrong, but pretty sure I'm not). I don't know. Our military personell in this scandal: If YOU went to Iraq and had to spend a lot of time around and amidst such animals, death and on and on. ... how would YOU act ? I'm not excusing it, but c'mon, how significant is this incident ? It's is a seriously nasty, bloody, horrific mess over there.
Thanes Place

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Thane

With no degree of diresepct to THANE or anyone else here.
Its not going to get "finished, nor is it designed to"

"We started it we have to finish it?"

Finish what?
*Installing a puppet government?*

*Building not one but TWO fine permanent military bases there?*

*"Restoring"Installing) our own brand of American Democracy?*

*Or breaking the will of the Iraq people CITZENS that do not want us there at all...in any manner?*

Old George Walker Bush said it best at th beginning, when he was standing on top of the aircraft carrier for his world famous photo op...with a banner hanging behind him that said:

"""""MISSION ACCOMPLISHED""""

I agree, we should have been gone then. Better yet, we should never have been there in the first place. Theres a world of dictators like Saddam...does that justify us invading each countrydeposing their dictators,, killing their
citizens and destroying their allready pathetic lives,so that they can taste freedom?

ITS ABOUT THE OIL

Sincerely,
]
Fred Albury

Well, I agree with you mostly here Fred. It may NEVER get finished. We are hated by the Islamics even more now. Maybe our military is just over there training terrorists better at this point (I read an article that Islamic fundamentalists from ALL over are going there to fight our military and train). How useful is THAT ? I don't think we went there for oil though. I mean, if we as Americans feel that we went there just for oil, and truly disagree with this mess, why do we keep buying and buying those big, gigantic, ugly gas guzzling SUVs, minivans and trucks and supporting this administration and making us look even MORE piggish to the rest of Islam ? I think we're going to have to find a new way of moving ourselves around eventually ANYWAYS, why not start a movement to do so now ? One of the reasons America is hated in many places on the globe is our piggish consumerism and wastefulness of resources. These things are starting to bite us in the hind end in some unexpected ways EARLY I guess.
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Thane

thane,

We buy those big gas guzzling usv's because we CAN and we feel a sense of entitlement in doing so. If we want it why shouldnt it be able to buy it?" is the standard thinking.

I totally agree that usine galternative sources of energy is BEHOND overdue. Isnt it fascinating that the big three automakers have had cars in production for the last ten years that get REALLY good mileage per gallon, yet havent released them onto the market.

They are all in bed together...the politicans...the automakers...the

...and the oil companies.....and the major corporations.....

And the word pays for it and so do we...with American lives.

so.....who wants o buy a new 05' hummer?

Ummmmm.......does that run on vegetable oil sir?

lol
FredA
Insane isnt it?i

We buy those big gas guzzling usv's because we CAN and we feel a sense of entitlement in doing so. If we want it why shouldnt it be able to buy it?" is the standard thinking.

(ME)I know. I won't own one myself because they're so big and ridiculous looking. Reminds me of a peacock displaying it's feathers saying "Look what I can afford."

I totally agree that usine galternative sources of energy is BEHOND overdue. Isnt it fascinating that the big three automakers have had cars in production for the last ten years that get REALLY good mileage per gallon, yet havent released them onto the market.

(ME)Because we as consumers want the biggest and the baddest and the toughest maybe ? They make what we buy. If we aren't becoming pigs, why do we have an obesity epidemic here ? Am I anti American ? No, I'm anti ignorance, pro education I guess. If we took care of OURSELVES better... well, now I'm starting to sound like a nut to MYSELF

They are all in bed together...the politicans...the automakers...the ...and the oil companies.....and the major corporations.....
And the word pays for it and so do we...with American lives.
so.....who wants o buy a new 05' hummer?
Ummmmm.......does that run on vegetable oil sir?

(ME)We're the consumers. We have the power. We GIVE them the power by continuing to purchase what they're selling us. I used to think hummers were cool, I wouldn't own one if GIVEN to me now, they're all over the dang road. Big dumb rolling abortions

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Thane

I agree with you: It's a huge mess in Iraq.

But you are in the wrong train (as we say in Germany) if you believe they will be extinct some day.
Quite the contrary: Their reproduction is immense and beats every country in the western hemisphere.
Israel for instance has many citizens who are arabs. Their reproduction ratio is much higher than those of the Jews. In order to compensate this Israel makes an effort to animate Jews from the former countries of the USSR to immigrate to Israel.
The same (regarding the reproduction) applies to the muslim people of Bosnia (that's why the Serbs were afraid) and also to the Palestinians.
In Germany it's the same: We have about 8 per cent foreign workers from Turkey. German families have about 1.5 children on average, the Turkeys 5 or 6. It's only a matter of a century until the half-moon flag is hissed in Berlin.

Extinction? *laugh*

The contrary will happen.
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The #1 Boa constrictor site in the world wide web

H E is right. Third world countries have traditionally high birth rates. It's not just the Arabs. Cubans and Haitians first started coming to South Florida in the early sixties. Now 45 years later, the non (born in America) population is 70%. Add in their American born children and the average American White or black is a small minority. Most (if not all) Major American cities have a large foriegn population. It is the white northern European that is facing eventual extinction. That is the inevidable truth.

Frank
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"The luxury of not getting involved departed with the last lifeboat Skipper..."

H E is right. Third world countries have traditionally high birth rates. It's not just the Arabs. Cubans and Haitians first started coming to South Florida in the early sixties. Now 45 years later, the non (born in America) population is 70%. Add in their American born children and the average American White or black is a small minority. Most (if not all) Major American cities have a large foriegn population. It is the white northern European that is facing eventual extinction. That is the inevidable truth.

(ME)I believe you're both correct on this one. Now, you've managed to scare the jeepers outta me (actually this isn't a new trend). But, I'm curious to hear what your theories are as to why a generally well to do, affluent population like America has (in general) are not reproducing. And why are lower income, less educated groups "breeding like rabbits" so to speak ? What do you see as the possible results of this trend ? What do you think are some of the main causes of this trend ? What should be done, or NOT done (if anything) ? This is actually a very interesting topic and I have my OWN ideas, but would rather hear some OTHERS ideas before I even start this in depth topic. Go.....
Thanes Place

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Thane

There are a few of reasons for it.

Part of it goes back to the days when medicine was not very advanced so a higher birthrate meant more would survive and offset the high infant mortality rate.

A farmer who was poor-needed sons to tend the field,so to raise more crops.

Having no Social Security, those sons were also there to support he and his wife in their old age.

Historically churches promote larger families to build up their parrishes.

The poor have less access to birth control information and because of this tend to listen to their religion and superstition, rather than science which generally they find hard to understand because of poor education-and so tend to dicourage birth control.

Also, sex is a free entertainment, as well as a release from the daily grind of eeking a living.

In more affluent countries.

Better medicine, A Social Security type system, More varied income opportunity-and more choices in lifestyle opportunities-all of these result in a lower birthrate, as it just is no longer necessary to produce lots of children, which also are more expensive to raise. Also because of a superior educational system they are less inclined to follow the strict teachings of their religion.

Nature though has away of leveling out. When a species becomes to comfortable to adapt, she throws a monkey wrench into their system. Every culture that reaches the top of the pyramid eventually falls off. In this case, the white race built the largest pyramid ever. The fall will be just as dramatic.

Frank
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"The luxury of not getting involved departed with the last lifeboat Skipper..."

Sounds about right. Any ideas/suggestions to preventing, stopping or slowing the collapse ? Somehow, it sounds like we aren't following the laws of nature somehow, and as you said ...the monkey wrench will or may follow.
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Thane

It's a Catch 22. Superior education makes us aware of our effect on the world. The problem is that we can see it, but we are outnumbered by those who don't. The eventuality is that we will over breed as a species, to the point where we make our world inhospitable to our kind. The ultimate result will be either extinction of the entire species, or a calamity that drives us close to it...Which would start the pattern over.

Frank
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"The luxury of not getting involved departed with the last lifeboat Skipper..."