Reptile & Amphibian Forums

This is going to sound pretty stupid but here goes....

I was always under the impression that all rattlesnakes were vipers. i can now see that this is not true. Are only some rattlers in the viper family? Are other rattlers in the Crotalidae family? Any more information on this would be greatly appreciated. thanks

Rob Woods

Rattlesnakes are pit vipers (family crotalidae) where true vipers have no heat sensing pits in there faces (family viperidae)
Hope this helps
Jl

So there are no rattlesnakes in the viper family?

There are "old world" vipers and pit vipers. Rattlesnakes are pit vipers. It's not rocket science.

I guess we still call them vipersm, but there are just two families of vipers, the 'true' vipers without heat pits, and the pit vipers, which have them. Rattlesnakes are members of the pit viper family, along with copperheads and such. All rattlesnakes are pit vipers.

The vipers are all still in the family Viperidae but there are two subfamilies, Viperinae and Crotalinae. The rattlesnakes (and other pit-vipers) are in Crotalinae, the non-pit containing vipers are in Viperinae (although Azemiops actually resides at the base of the pit-viper tree despite not having pits).

The distinctions between these two lineages is infinitesimal compared to the vast differences between 'colubrid' families such as Colubrinae (e.g. Boiga, Elaphe), Homalopsinae (e.g. Cerberus, Enhydris), Natricinae (e.g. Natrix, Rhabodophis), Psammophiinae (e.g. Malpolon, Psammophis), Pseudoxyrhophiinae (e.g. Leioheterodon, Madagascarophis), Xenodontinae (e.g. Heterodon, Hydrodynastes). Some of these families (e.g.. Psammophiinae, Pseudoxyrhophiinae) are much much closer to elapids than they are to other 'colubrids'

Cheers
BGF
Venom & Toxin Database

One last note: The Americas are home to the majority of the world's pit vipers, but no vipers. Interesting side note: All of Australia's dangerously venomous snakes are elapids, & it is the only continent wherein there are more venomous species of snakes than non-venomous.

From the Fountain of Useless Information ~~Greg~~

I was wondering when someone was going to elude to the subfamily classification. Are all of the above posts from venomous keepers? That classification, as previously thought, was common knowledge.

Most of the guys & gals here keep or have kept venomous animals. Some, like BGF, & WW, & to a much lesser extent, yours truly have even written stuff either on web sites or in print. BGF even has some face time on the teevee. There's a lot of experience here.

~~Greg~~
Florida's Venomous Snakes

Has anyone ever kept a black mamba?

Yeah, an eleven footer was one of many of the snakes I took care of at Lion Country Safari from 1968 to 1972.

~~Greg~~

Thats really cool. What is it like caring for a black mamba?

Rob Woods

Not to confuse things........However, some researchers recognize four subfamilies under the Viperidae. In the recently published book titled "True Vipers", Mallow et. al. (2003) follow the most recently recognized taxonomy in which Azemiopinae and Causinae are separated out. Azemiopinae is nested at the base of Crotalinae and the genus Causus has been cladistically
proven to be monophyletic and the most basal viperid genus. Remember, this all depends on who you talk to and what day of the week it is. As BGF mentioned, these subfamilies are very closely related. Cheers, MR

Thanks for the reference, I haven't read that yet. Although I was aware of the basic taxonomic designations.
creep