Reptile & Amphibian Forums

The reason i dont care for crossbreeding locales of the pardalis
is Some people misrepresent them when they get older
For instance someone may buy a crossbreed at the petstore or ONLINE then get bored of their chameleon and sell it as a certain locale instead of a crossbreed
OR as i have just saw someone who just reinforced my OPPINION
cross one locale with another sell the babies as crossbreeds and when they didnt sell (i wonder why) as good as expected
BLATENTLY change their ad and say it is a pure locale!!!
Im sure there ARE others doing it as well just so they can get some of the almighty Dollars just a little sneakier
So my advice to the new people here and some of the old
BUY yor chams from a reputable breeder or someone you TRUST or you may not get what you think it is!
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Thanks Dennis
My Ark List (Almost There)
1.1 Ambilobe
1.1 Noseybe (My Wife's)
1.1.15.50 Veiled Blue Phase 0.0.14 Yellow Phase
??1.1?? Mellers
2.2 B.Decaryi
2.2 R.Brevs
1.1 Bearded Dragons (My Wife's)
1.1 Leopard Geckos
1.1.1 D. Azureus (frogs)
0.0.2 D.Auratus (frogs)
1.1 Lionshead Wabbits (My Wife's)
0.1 Cat (Calico)
0.1 Dalmation (Scooter) (My Daughters)
1.1 Tarantula Rose Hair (My Daughters)

There is always going to be a segment of cham buyers who don't particularly care about the purity of a locale. They just want a "pretty" cham and want one for less $. Luckily most of these keepers don't breed or produce babies for sale. If a breeder wants to sell crosses they should at least target the "pet" customer and be honest about their babies with other breeders.

I think Hybrid Panthers are on the horizon. Morphs of all sorts of other Reptiles are very hot and it is just a matter of time. There will always be Panthers bred true to locale lines. The people that I regard as the best breeders in the business - that being the Kammers have been breeding hybrids for some time now. One of their Hybrid Panthers won first place at an previous IRBA show, then Tyler Stewart of Blue Beast Reptiles took Best in Show with a hybrid Panther this year. As far as the purity of locales goes, anytime they have a typhoon in Madagascar, some Panthers are going to be displaced from their locale. As Chameleons lose more and more of their previous land in Madagascar to development and sprawl, more and more locales will merge together. So did we ever have a real base line to begin with? I want to say that I do agree with you guys that it is wrong to misrespresent a Panther as a given locale when it is not. However I feel that locales are not hard standards and that hybrids should have their place and not be looked at with disdain. Just my two cents.

LOL... I dont think a hurricane can blow a nosey be' to ambanja
But seriously i see the similarities in colors between locales
And im sure that my idea of an ambilobe may or may not be somebody elses!Not to mention they may get mixed up in shipping to the U.S.
I dont really have a problem with "designer" chams different strokes and all,If i want one ill buy it The problem is SELLING A CHAMELEON AS A LOCALE THAT IT IS NOT for the money

I would pay in excess and have for a pure locale but wouldnt give 2 cents for a mutt unless that is what im looking for

Pretty much what im saying is when im buying an exspensive chameleon that is advertised as let's say tamative I WANT A TAMATIVE not a mutt!
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Thanks Dennis
My Ark List (Almost There)
1.1 Ambilobe
1.1 Noseybe (My Wife's)
1.1.15.50 Veiled Blue Phase 0.0.14 Yellow Phase
??1.1?? Mellers
2.2 B.Decaryi
2.2 R.Brevs
1.1 Bearded Dragons (My Wife's)
1.1 Leopard Geckos
1.1.1 D. Azureus (frogs)
0.0.2 D.Auratus (frogs)
1.1 Lionshead Wabbits (My Wife's)
0.1 Cat (Calico)
0.1 Dalmation (Scooter) (My Daughters)
1.1 Tarantula Rose Hair (My Daughters)

I agree with you 100% that people should not represent a Panther as a given locale when it is not. It really sucks to buy a young female Panther that you thought was an Ambilobe and later breed her and find Sambava traits in your offspring. As breeders, honesty has to be foremost.

And if that happens what can you do with the female?
Since they retain sperm she could mate with her own locale afterwards and still spit out crossbreeds Part of the reason i buy young unmated females for my breeding stock!I am sure that happens in large scale breeding facilities.
I am strictly small time and that almost happened to me when my ambilobe male who will breed with any female chameleon got out and tried to get to my female noseybe'

This pic is just a joke since they cannot interbreed i saw no harm...LOL

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Thanks Dennis
My Ark List (Almost There)
1.1 Ambilobe
1.1 Noseybe (My Wife's)
1.1.15.50 Veiled Blue Phase 0.0.14 Yellow Phase
??1.1?? Mellers
2.2 B.Decaryi
2.2 R.Brevs
1.1 Bearded Dragons (My Wife's)
1.1 Leopard Geckos
1.1.1 D. Azureus (frogs)
0.0.2 D.Auratus (frogs)
1.1 Lionshead Wabbits (My Wife's)
0.1 Cat (Calico)
0.1 Dalmation (Scooter) (My Daughters)
1.1 Tarantula Rose Hair (My Daughters)

I just wanted to point out, the male panther that took best in show wasn't a hybrid, but was 100% Ambanja. The magazine called him a "Rainbow Panther," but they never even asked me what he was, nor did they ask his name.

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Tyler Stewart
Las Vegas NV
www.BLUEBEASTREPTILE.com

Thats a nice looking chameleon!
I can see how it may be mistaken for a crossbreed though
Which magazine was it?
what is his name?

you know when i first got into chameleons i thought if you took a blue bar ambanja and breed it to the same the offspring would look the same!However there can be very different color differences!
I would love to see the lineage of some panthers i bet it would be truly amazing to see
it is my hope In the long term Im trying to take my idea of some locals and selectively breed them to look similar to that idea
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Thanks Dennis
My Ark List (Almost There)
1.1 Ambilobe
1.1 Noseybe (My Wife's)
1.1.15.50 Veiled Blue Phase 0.0.14 Yellow Phase
??1.1?? Mellers
2.2 B.Decaryi
2.2 R.Brevs
1.1 Bearded Dragons (My Wife's)
1.1 Leopard Geckos
1.1.1 D. Azureus (frogs)
0.0.2 D.Auratus (frogs)
1.1 Lionshead Wabbits (My Wife's)
0.1 Cat (Calico)
0.1 Dalmation (Scooter) (My Daughters)
1.1 Tarantula Rose Hair (My Daughters)

Wow! He is a beautiful Ambanja. I apologize, after what I read in "Reptiles magazine" I really thought he was a crossbreed. I didn't realize that this topic would go on for so long. I'm a small scale breeder too

Sorry, I wasn't quite finished. I guess basically what I'm trying to say is that it isn't wrong to crossbreed, but if you're trying to sell them, represent them correctly. We ourselves cannot be 100% sure that our breeding stock is what we say it is. We bought our animals as a certain thing but originally their grandparents (or so) were wild caught and the importers were the ones that said I caught him near Ambanja so he's an Ambanja. You just can't be 100% sure that he is an Ambanja, so you have to be honest and represent with what you know to be the truth. Okay, this is beating a dead horse.

This Post Wasnt necessarily posted for either of you The reason i posted this is because there is a dishonest add up! Which kinda pissed me off and i figured he will read this and correct it
And also if there were any ideas in how to protect people from getting ripped off?

Thank you both for your replies and the Nice pics of your chams!

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Thanks Dennis
My Ark List (Almost There)
1.1 Ambilobe
1.1 Noseybe (My Wife's)
1.1.15.50 Veiled Blue Phase 0.0.14 Yellow Phase
??1.1?? Mellers
2.2 B.Decaryi
2.2 R.Brevs
1.1 Bearded Dragons (My Wife's)
1.1 Leopard Geckos
1.1.1 D. Azureus (frogs)
0.0.2 D.Auratus (frogs)
1.1 Lionshead Wabbits (My Wife's)
0.1 Cat (Calico)
0.1 Dalmation (Scooter) (My Daughters)
1.1 Tarantula Rose Hair (My Daughters)

I am glad someone else noticed that as well, if indeed we are speaking of the same Classified post. But I guess if you try to sell something for a couple of months with no takers, just doctor it up a little bit and find a sucker - right? I hope that anyone that inquires to that ad receives the full story before they purchase.

Sorry if I am out of the loop here but what ad are you reffering to? Just curious as I missed that one. Thanks.

probably unless there more than one...lol
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Thanks Dennis
My Ark List (Almost There)
1.1 Ambilobe
1.1 Noseybe (My Wife's)
1.1.15.50 Veiled Blue Phase 0.0.14 Yellow Phase
??1.1?? Mellers
2.2 B.Decaryi
2.2 R.Brevs
1.1 Bearded Dragons (My Wife's)
1.1 Leopard Geckos
1.1.1 D. Azureus (frogs)
0.0.2 D.Auratus (frogs)
1.1 Lionshead Wabbits (My Wife's)
0.1 Cat (Calico)
0.1 Dalmation (Scooter) (My Daughters)
1.1 Tarantula Rose Hair (My Daughters)