Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Well, some of you may remember my post a few weeks ago about me attempting to finish off my basement by myself. Well, it started off well and I completely framed out the future herp room using metal studs (which I promise to post pics of this weekend) and all I need now is to simply hire an electrician to add outlets. Simple, right?

WRONG! Well, out of a dozen electrical contractors I have called, most want to charge me between $2-3000! WHAT THE F---? Keep in mind, all I said was, "I need an estimate for adding a few outlets to my basement that I'm finishing off". Can someone PLEASE tell me what an honest approximate cost would really truly be for doing this type of work. I absolutely refuse to pay more to an electrical contractor than it will cost for finishing off my entire basement altogether. Its insane. Not to mention that all the electricians I spoke with will only do the work if I obtain appropriate permits. Now, permits wouldn't be a problem EXCEPT that it will lead to needing other permits for other parts of this project which will then cause my property taxes to increase ALOT of money...I'm talking hundreds, if not a thousand or more dollars per year. I have a kid on the way and simply cannot afford this type of what's the word...EXTORTION.
Anyway, a friend of a friend is an electrician so I may try to go that route but its VERY frustrating b/c I really wanted to do things the honest, legit way but how can people really afford this...I'm only a teacher and don't make that much. Its simply extortion to charge that much.
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Happy New Year, Jason
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My Website: www.members.aol.com/northeastsnakes
My collection...
BOAS: 0.1 Solomon Island Ground Boa, 1.1 Brazilian Rainbow Boas, 1.1 Argentine Boas, 2.2 Nicaraguans, 1.1 Sonoran Desert Boas, 1.1 Cay Caulkers, 1.0 Columbian Boa 100% het Kahl Albino, 0.1 Anery boa, 0.1 Salmon OTW, 1.1 Hog Island Boas, 0.1 Hog Island Boa poss het patternless.
PYTHONS: 1.2 Green Tree Pythons, 2.2 Bismarck Ringed Pythons, 2.8 Normal Ball Pythons, 1.0 Ball Python 100% het Piebald, 1.1 Spotted Pythons.
COLUBRIDS: 1.1 Black Pines, 1.1 Northern Pines, 2.2 Bairds Ratsnakes, 1.2 White-sided Black Ratsnakes.
CORNS: 1.0 Blizzard, 1.2 Bloodreds, 1.2 Butters, 1.0 Ghost, 0.1 Sunglow, 1.0 Hypo het Amber, 1.1 Lavenders, 1.1 Miami Phases, 1.2 Reverse Okeetee, 0.1 Snow, 0.1 Striped Amel, 3.2 Okeetees.
OTHER: 0.0.3 N. Diamondback Terrapins.

Where do you live, I may be able to help.

np

I tried sending this via normal email but I got blocked by your spam controls i think. Anyway, here was my reply:

Oh, I'm in kansas city. I figured if you were somewhere in the midwest i could make a road trip to help u out, but east of philly would too far to go. sorry.
That's okay. Thank you anyway for the offer.

As far as your snake room goes, if i remember correctly u are using metal studs. i do residential work, but have never wired through metal studs. my thought is that the material cost is higher therefor your quotes are higher.
Metal studs are actually easier from what I've been told by many, many people, as well as researching online. Metal studs already have holes for running wires through and I have plastic grommets that snap in so the wiring is not touching the actual metal stud. As far as connecting the outlet box...metal studs are extremely easy to attach things to.

How old is your house?
My house is approximately 10 weeks old (2 months)..it is a new construction so I doubt I would need a service upgrade. My main circuit panel is 150A i think.

how many recpts are you going to have added? (also how many circuts 15 or 20 amp?)
I wanted to add about 16 or so 20Amp outlets in the herp room so I figure it would need 2-20amp circuits added to the electrical box, which there is room for. There is absolutely zero problems with running wires since nothing is finished and the main circuit box is very close by so its not like its a complicated job. As for lighting, I have plenty of the basic 'light bulbs w/a string' already installed all throughout the basement that I could convert to another form of lighting on my own.

As for permits, I completed framing and did not know I needed permits for it. How the heck is anyone supposed to know what you do or don't need permits for anyway. Its so frustrating. Therefore, if I try to get a permit for the electric I might get burned for not having approved framing and would be a major pain in the ass to take them all down now.

Besides, I did my research and I guarantee that I did a better job framing than if I had paid someone else to do it. Just about all the studs are 16 inches apart and I used a special nail gun to attach the metal tracks to the cement. Even IF we had tornados in NJ (and we don') or whatever, these things are not coming apart. So at this point I can't see paying into a system that only exists b/c of pressure from lobbyists from various contractors' unions. If it were not corrupt, then a home owner could apply for a permit to do the work themselves and then have the township inspect it to make sure its done to code. But that's only in a perfect world.lol.

I have read up on how to do the electrical work myself and could probably do it just fine but I fear going into the main circuit box. And even with the main circuit switched off, I fear accidentally touching the main hot wire coming into the house from the outside. What I really need to do is watch someone experienced explain as they do it. I am a very fast learner.
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Happy New Year, Jason
-----
My Website: www.members.aol.com/northeastsnakes
My collection...
BOAS: 0.1 Solomon Island Ground Boa, 1.1 Brazilian Rainbow Boas, 1.1 Argentine Boas, 2.2 Nicaraguans, 1.1 Sonoran Desert Boas, 1.1 Cay Caulkers, 1.0 Columbian Boa 100% het Kahl Albino, 0.1 Anery boa, 0.1 Salmon OTW, 1.1 Hog Island Boas, 0.1 Hog Island Boa poss het patternless.
PYTHONS: 1.2 Green Tree Pythons, 2.2 Bismarck Ringed Pythons, 2.8 Normal Ball Pythons, 1.0 Ball Python 100% het Piebald, 1.1 Spotted Pythons.
COLUBRIDS: 1.1 Black Pines, 1.1 Northern Pines, 2.2 Bairds Ratsnakes, 1.2 White-sided Black Ratsnakes.
CORNS: 1.0 Blizzard, 1.2 Bloodreds, 1.2 Butters, 1.0 Ghost, 0.1 Sunglow, 1.0 Hypo het Amber, 1.1 Lavenders, 1.1 Miami Phases, 1.2 Reverse Okeetee, 0.1 Snow, 0.1 Striped Amel, 3.2 Okeetees.
OTHER: 0.0.3 N. Diamondback Terrapins.

I wouldnt say thats crazy prices, I spent 11 years as a electrician here in NC before owning my own remodel company for 10 yrs . Now not knowing what state you are in I cant say for price structure if they are crazy or not . Now in the 21 yrs of the trades work i can say that 10 i had my elec lisc for the state of NC and if you were to call me up and ask me " How much would it cost to add some outlets and lights in my basement of my house in finsihing off ?"
i would have probably told you the same over the phone aswell. Now if i came out and looked at it and you say only wanted like a dozen or so outlets , some lights , swithces and the panel had room then i would have took into account the mileage from your house to my buis. based like this

Outlets - $40-$45 per outlet installed ( includes wire and outlet , rec & box ) - 12 outlets -Total $540.00

Breakers for outlets to be added on - $20-$40 ( depending on panel ) 2-20A breakers $45.00

Lights - 5 lights $20.00 Total $100.00
Switches -5 switches $20.00 Total $100.00
this would be a very minimal electrica lfor a basement and actually would actually be a room 12x12 other then lights and switches would be the needed outlets or so by NEC for NC every 6 ft .

So without knowing how much you actually needed done or if they saw it and quoted you that high is a different ball park .
Now also it may be they have all the work they want so give a high bid if you say yes then they do it if you say no then they havent lost anything .

No offense but when you say
"Anyway, a friend of a friend is an electrician so I may try to go that route but its VERY frustrating b/c I really wanted to do things the honest, legit way but how can people really afford this...I'm only a teacher and don't make that much. Its simply extortion to charge that much."

Keep in mind that depending on the state permit fees for the work can be very high then as you say you will need to then get other inspectors like building inspectors , and such involved which leads to fines now that you have started the work w/o permits then the building permits fees Actually if you have a basement of anysize unless its fullt heated it wont add to the tax value of your home anyway. atleast in NC it has to be heated / cooled space to be considered a upgrade taxable by the state .

I wasnt being hard on you and i do understand your plight but also be fair to the contractors out there unless they have been to your home and seen your work and w/o knowing how much you had wanted done its hard to give prices overthe phone ( impossible to )
lol heck i have gone to calls before where people who lived in the house all thier lives couldnt getthe light to work ... lol drive 45 mins one way walk in ask if the bulb has been changed and get yes it has and still doesnt work lol check the bulb with a 1" of lint on it stick a new one in and then write out a bill for $125.00 so in prospective your price was cheap lol
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Buisnesses come and go everyday, what keeps you here is how you treated the customer the day before....My Boa Can Kick Your Boas _ss!www.cheapcages.com
Visit the new website while the Jungle gets made over.

The trades are devious, i'm a self employed mason, and i see alot. In my trade thats called service work and is usually bid out on an hourly basis, here in Wi. it'd be about $70 per hour. To hook up a couple of outlets/switchs should not cost anywhere near that, you should be upset. The hell with honest, find a competant sparky who can do it on a weekend. You'll save a bundle. By the way we don't call them the smart ones in the trades for nothing. Clint

I agree as far as the hr rates , when i would do something hrly my rate was $65 hr with a min of 4 hrs charged materials. Now while yes that seems OUTRAGIUS right ?

Now lets look at it this way

in my buisness my daily income or needed income to cover my overheqads ( insurance , truck , gas , etc etc )
Workers Comp insurance daily rate that if i didnt do ANYTHING i need to make $75 that day to cover it

Liability INS- Need to make $50 a day to cover that

So there is $125 a day i need to make without getting out of bed lol to cover insurance
then my daily break down of what i needed to make to cover and break even was around $200 total when truck insurances etc add in

So there we have a total of $1000 a week i need to make if i didsnt do anything else .

so yes it seems like highway rape but when the breakdowns come out it adds up fast

i mean in perspective look at it this way

someone sells a $1200 albino boa they have very LITTLE into actual cost t breed it would be minimal figure 3 yrs to breed a female then add in a rat a week for three yrs ? you fed that female and bred her then selling baboes at $1200 ea ? to some thats rape also but its all in what ya do
I got out of Elec work ( as full time ) cause the low bidders were killing the market
every cornewr was a elec shop . they would bid jobs at like $4 a rec to get work when the goin rates were like $15 a outlet ( new construction) well doesnt take long to do math and figurte out there is no competeing with people who "bootleg" work and normally dont have the insurance needed when ur house burns down for shoddy work done then when ya call them to tellem they burned ur house down they are not there.

again im just pointing out some facts of the trades being as i have done it all but mason work lol
done and done right are two different prices when i look at it
you pay for the work of a person who is lics by the state , insured , and knows there work orrrr you get a 1-2 yr helper to do it cheaper who thinks he knows everything and spends more time getting it done and having to fix this that to make it so then paying a crew to come in one day do it and be gone
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Buisnesses come and go everyday, what keeps you here is how you treated the customer the day before....My Boa Can Kick Your Boas _ss!www.cheapcages.com
Visit the new website while the Jungle gets made over.

Competant was the key word, being subjective at best. $2-3000 seemed excessive to me. Thats rape, $70 an hour is an acceptable rate for a self employed high end tradesman. Sparky could be in and out in a day for that job. Clint

All I want to do is add approximately 16 20amp outlets on 2 20amp circuits in my future herp room. I would also (maybe) like to add a light switch to an existing basement light. The main ciruit box is maybe 15ft away or less and nothing in my basement is finished yet so there is no fishing wires or drilling through wooden 2x4's. The room that needs electric is framed with metal studs, which are pre-made with holes for running wires. I have plastic grommets so that wires can not be worn from contact with the sharp edges of the studs. As for connecting outlet boxes...metal studs are far easier to attach things to than wooden studs. Other details...my home is appx. 10 weeks old so I do not need to upgrade old electric or anything. There are plenty of spots for adding circuits in the main electric box.

As for permits, I completed the framing already and did not know I needed permits for it. How the heck is anyone supposed to know what you do or don't need permits for anyway. Its so frustrating. Besides, its my home. I own it..not the township. It is just a reminder of how little freedom we actually have since we are told what we are 'permitted' to do with our homes.

Besides, if I try to get a permit for the electric I might get burned for not having a permit for approved framing and would be a major pain in the butt to take it all down now. Not to mention I'm on a fixed budget/income. Also, in my township, taxes are reassessed for finishing a basement, regardless of whether or not you run heat/air in it. This could/would raise taxes ALOT for me..from a few hundred to maybe $1000 per year. Maybe I'm wrong but I'm already paying almost $9000 per year and I only live on 1/2 acre of land with an average size home. (yes, I really need to move but taxes are not really the issue).

Besides, I did my research and I guarantee that I did a better job framing than if I had paid someone else to do it. Just about all the studs are 16 inches apart and I used a special nail gun (hildi?) to attach the metal tracks to the cement floor. I also have adequate space for airflow behind the walls once the walls are up. Even IF we had extreme weather in my state (and we don't), the studs are not coming apart. So at this point I can't see paying into a system (for permits) that only exists b/c of pressure from lobbyists from various contractors' unions. If it were not corrupt, then a homeowner could apply for a permit to do the work themselves and then have the township inspect it to make sure its done to properly and up to code. But that's only in a perfect world.lol. To say that only people with a license know how to do electric is simply wrong.

I have read up on how to do the electrical work myself and could probably do it just fine but I fear going into the main circuit box. And even with the main circuit switched off, I fear accidentally touching the main hot wire coming into the house from the outside. What I really need to do is watch someone experienced explain as they do it. I am a very fast learner.

At any rate, I priced out every aspect of this project and from start to finish it should only cost $2000 total. If the builder had done it, they would have charged $7000, which I simply could never afford. The fact is that there are simply millions of people that do all sorts of upgrades to their homes and don't pay for permits or overly high contractor rates. Anyway, I'd be more than happy to pay for permits if it wasn't for the fact that a contractor would still kill me for $2-3000 on a job that would only take 1/2 a day at most. Its insane anyway you look at it.
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Happy New Year, Jason
-----
My Website: www.members.aol.com/northeastsnakes
My collection...
BOAS: 0.1 Solomon Island Ground Boa, 1.1 Brazilian Rainbow Boas, 1.1 Argentine Boas, 2.2 Nicaraguans, 1.1 Sonoran Desert Boas, 1.1 Cay Caulkers, 1.0 Columbian Boa 100% het Kahl Albino, 0.1 Anery boa, 0.1 Salmon OTW, 1.1 Hog Island Boas, 0.1 Hog Island Boa poss het patternless.
PYTHONS: 1.2 Green Tree Pythons, 2.2 Bismarck Ringed Pythons, 2.8 Normal Ball Pythons, 1.0 Ball Python 100% het Piebald, 1.1 Spotted Pythons.
COLUBRIDS: 1.1 Black Pines, 1.1 Northern Pines, 2.2 Bairds Ratsnakes, 1.2 White-sided Black Ratsnakes.
CORNS: 1.0 Blizzard, 1.2 Bloodreds, 1.2 Butters, 1.0 Ghost, 0.1 Sunglow, 1.0 Hypo het Amber, 1.1 Lavenders, 1.1 Miami Phases, 1.2 Reverse Okeetee, 0.1 Snow, 0.1 Striped Amel, 3.2 Okeetees.
OTHER: 0.0.3 N. Diamondback Terrapins.

>>All I want to do is add approximately 16 20amp outlets on 2 20amp circuits in my future herp room. I would also (maybe) like to add a light switch to an existing basement light. The main ciruit box is maybe 15ft away or less and nothing in my basement is finished yet so there is no fishing wires or drilling through wooden 2x4's. The room that needs electric is framed with metal studs, which are pre-made with holes for running wires. I have plastic grommets so that wires can not be worn from contact with the sharp edges of the studs. As for connecting outlet boxes...metal studs are far easier to attach things to than wooden studs. Other details...my home is appx. 10 weeks old so I do not need to upgrade old electric or anything. There are plenty of spots for adding circuits in the main electric box.
>>
>>As for permits, I completed the framing already and did not know I needed permits for it. How the heck is anyone supposed to know what you do or don't need permits for anyway. Its so frustrating. Besides, its my home. I own it..not the township. It is just a reminder of how little freedom we actually have since we are told what we are 'permitted' to do with our homes.
>>Permits are in place to monitor and maintain safe building practices
>>Besides, if I try to get a permit for the electric I might get burned for not having a permit for approved framing and would be a major pain in the butt to take it all down now. Not to mention I'm on a fixed budget/income. Also, in my township, taxes are reassessed for finishing a basement, regardless of whether or not you run heat/air in it. This could/would raise taxes ALOT for me..from a few hundred to maybe $1000 per year. Maybe I'm wrong but I'm already paying almost $9000 per year and I only live on 1/2 acre of land with an average size home. (yes, I really need to move but taxes are not really the issue).
>>
>>Besides, I did my research and I guarantee that I did a better job framing than if I had paid someone else to do it. Just about all the studs are 16 inches apart and I used a special nail gun (hildi?) to attach the metal tracks to the cement floor. I also have adequate space for airflow behind the walls once the walls are up. Even IF we had extreme weather in my state (and we don't), the studs are not coming apart. So at this point I can't see paying into a system (for permits) that only exists b/c of pressure from lobbyists from various contractors' unions. If it were not corrupt, then a homeowner could apply for a permit to do the work themselves and then have the township inspect it to make sure its done to properly and up to code. But that's only in a perfect world.lol. To say that only people with a license know how to do electric is simply wrong.
>> Shotty electrical work causes fires. Call the township and ask about reputable electricians.
>>I have read up on how to do the electrical work myself and could probably do it just fine but I fear going into the main circuit box. And even with the main circuit switched off, I fear accidentally touching the main hot wire coming into the house from the outside. What I really need to do is watch someone experienced explain as they do it. I am a very fast learner.
>>
>>At any rate, I priced out every aspect of this project and from start to finish it should only cost $2000 total. If the builder had done it, they would have charged $7000, which I simply could never afford. The fact is that there are simply millions of people that do all sorts of upgrades to their homes and don't pay for permits or overly high contractor rates. Anyway, I'd be more than happy to pay for permits if it wasn't for the fact that a contractor would still kill me for $2-3000 on a job that would only take 1/2 a day at most. Its insane anyway you look at it.
>>-----
>>Happy New Year, Jason
>>-----
>>My Website: www.members.aol.com/northeastsnakes
>>My collection...
>>BOAS: 0.1 Solomon Island Ground Boa, 1.1 Brazilian Rainbow Boas, 1.1 Argentine Boas, 2.2 Nicaraguans, 1.1 Sonoran Desert Boas, 1.1 Cay Caulkers, 1.0 Columbian Boa 100% het Kahl Albino, 0.1 Anery boa, 0.1 Salmon OTW, 1.1 Hog Island Boas, 0.1 Hog Island Boa poss het patternless.
>>PYTHONS: 1.2 Green Tree Pythons, 2.2 Bismarck Ringed Pythons, 2.8 Normal Ball Pythons, 1.0 Ball Python 100% het Piebald, 1.1 Spotted Pythons.
>>COLUBRIDS: 1.1 Black Pines, 1.1 Northern Pines, 2.2 Bairds Ratsnakes, 1.2 White-sided Black Ratsnakes.
>>CORNS: 1.0 Blizzard, 1.2 Bloodreds, 1.2 Butters, 1.0 Ghost, 0.1 Sunglow, 1.0 Hypo het Amber, 1.1 Lavenders, 1.1 Miami Phases, 1.2 Reverse Okeetee, 0.1 Snow, 0.1 Striped Amel, 3.2 Okeetees.
>>OTHER: 0.0.3 N. Diamondback Terrapins.

it were not corrupt, then a homeowner could apply for a permit to do the work themselves and then have the township inspect it to make sure its done to properly and up to code.

I do not know where you live but if you do own your home in the state of NC the homeowner can pull permits themselves and do any trade work as long as it surpasses code in your area. You might wanna check into that as just a future refference.

As to the work you wanted added then if your explanianing was on then i would say figure safely $25 per outlet on the high end for them to be installed $40 for breakers and then another $60 or so for the lighting.

So i would say for around $700 or so it should be doable from a lisc eletricians standpoint.
and should take about 4 hrs tops and if they dont have to go get anything then id say about 2 hrs tops

Trust me about the system it sucks so much BS to go thru i know the frustration you feel. Just imagine dealing with that for 10 yrs every day lol good luck on the work
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Buisnesses come and go everyday, what keeps you here is how you treated the customer the day before....My Boa Can Kick Your Boas _ss!www.cheapcages.com
Visit the new website while the Jungle gets made over.