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Bimaculata baby survives...the story with photo...

Ratsnake Haven Jan 16, 2005 01:13 PM

This baby Chinese twin-spotted ratsnake, Elaphe bimaculata, is a survivor. It didn't eat it's first meal until December 31, 2004. Here's the story and how I got it to survive.

It was born in mid-August, 2004, along with one sibling. It was a clutch of five eggs, where three had been infertile, the mother's first clutch. Neither hatchling would eat anything for their first three months. I tried every trick I knew and they just weren't going to eat. I decided to not force them, but rather brumate them.

It was finally cold enough in my Hibernation Room around the 15th of November and I put them in. It got down to around 50*F, about a week, or two later, and I kept them in there until close to Christmas. When I took them out, they were obviously starving and dehydrated. They must have been too weak to drink from the water jar. I hydrated them.

About a week later they were active and I offered each of them a live pinky. The weakest one ate, but it was too late. I found it dead the next day with the pink undigested. I decided to try a trick with the survivor. I took a frozen pink and cut it into three pieces. I then put it in a deli cup with enough water to wet the bottom of the cup. I put the baby snake in and it ate two pieces on December the 31st, over four months after it was born.

About a week later the surviving baby ate again. Again it ate two of three pieces under the same conditions. Today, two weeks after the first feeding it ate all three pieces, it's first total of a pinky, and is starting to look like it will make it.

I'm making this post for several reasons.

First, I hope we can all learn from these mistakes. I should have brumated the snakes sooner. I could have cooled them at a less severe temp, maybe around 60*F. I should have brought them out sooner and probably would have saved both.

Second, I thought the experience with the deli cup would help lots of folks. I liked the idea of cutting up the frozen/thawed pink and letting the baby snake decide how much to eat. Also, the snake is now programmed to eat thawed pinks, which is good, especially for this species.

Thirdly, this is a pet project of mine. I know the snake isn't that nice looking, but they do get prettier as they develop. I had another clutch from an older female and all her babies ate after first shed and are doing great. They are about twice the size of the survivor the story is about. I cooled them down about the time the survivor ate its first meal. I suspect the survivor will be about equal in size to the others once they come out of brumation, in a few weeks. I'm monitoring them closely.

TC

Ratsnake Haven Gallery

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Ratsnake Haven: Calico and albino Chinese stripe-tailed ratsnakes, Mandarin ratsnakes, Chinese twin-spotted ratsnakes, South Korean Dione's ratsnake, Great Plains rats and corn snakes

Replies (8)

jfirneno Jan 16, 2005 09:28 PM

NT

Ratsnake Haven Jan 17, 2005 07:54 AM

>>NT

BillyBoy Jan 18, 2005 12:54 PM

>>This baby Chinese twin-spotted ratsnake, Elaphe bimaculata, is a survivor. It didn't eat it's first meal until December 31, 2004. Here's the story and how I got it to survive.
>>
>>It was born in mid-August, 2004, along with one sibling. It was a clutch of five eggs, where three had been infertile, the mother's first clutch. Neither hatchling would eat anything for their first three months. I tried every trick I knew and they just weren't going to eat. I decided to not force them, but rather brumate them.
>>
>>It was finally cold enough in my Hibernation Room around the 15th of November and I put them in. It got down to around 50*F, about a week, or two later, and I kept them in there until close to Christmas. When I took them out, they were obviously starving and dehydrated. They must have been too weak to drink from the water jar. I hydrated them.
>>
>>About a week later they were active and I offered each of them a live pinky. The weakest one ate, but it was too late. I found it dead the next day with the pink undigested. I decided to try a trick with the survivor. I took a frozen pink and cut it into three pieces. I then put it in a deli cup with enough water to wet the bottom of the cup. I put the baby snake in and it ate two pieces on December the 31st, over four months after it was born.
>>
>>About a week later the surviving baby ate again. Again it ate two of three pieces under the same conditions. Today, two weeks after the first feeding it ate all three pieces, it's first total of a pinky, and is starting to look like it will make it.
>>
>>I'm making this post for several reasons.
>>
>>First, I hope we can all learn from these mistakes. I should have brumated the snakes sooner. I could have cooled them at a less severe temp, maybe around 60*F. I should have brought them out sooner and probably would have saved both.
>>
>>Second, I thought the experience with the deli cup would help lots of folks. I liked the idea of cutting up the frozen/thawed pink and letting the baby snake decide how much to eat. Also, the snake is now programmed to eat thawed pinks, which is good, especially for this species.
>>
>>Thirdly, this is a pet project of mine. I know the snake isn't that nice looking, but they do get prettier as they develop. I had another clutch from an older female and all her babies ate after first shed and are doing great. They are about twice the size of the survivor the story is about. I cooled them down about the time the survivor ate its first meal. I suspect the survivor will be about equal in size to the others once they come out of brumation, in a few weeks. I'm monitoring them closely.
>>
>>TC
>>
>>
>>
>>Ratsnake Haven Gallery
>>
>>-----
>>Ratsnake Haven: Calico and albino Chinese stripe-tailed ratsnakes, Mandarin ratsnakes, Chinese twin-spotted ratsnakes, South Korean Dione's ratsnake, Great Plains rats and corn snakes

SteveH Jan 22, 2005 09:47 AM

why not tube feed to get some weight on them until you can get them to eat? what is wrong with that? just wondering.

Terry Cox Jan 22, 2005 10:07 AM

>>why not tube feed to get some weight on them until you can get them to eat? what is wrong with that? just wondering.

1. Didn't expect to lose any.

2. Didn't think of it. Rarely have this problem.

3. Philosophically, could be a problem for some. Will have to think about it.

4. Force feeding could injure a fragile, tiny baby. It may be the only way to save some babies, however. Do you use this method, and, if so, which species does it work for?

5. What size tube could fit for a snake which is less than 7 grams and what goes in the tube..a mashed up pinky?

Thanks....TC

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Ratsnake Haven: Calico and hypo Chinese beauty snakes, Mandarin ratsnakes, Chinese twin-spotted ratsnakes, South Korean Dione's ratsnake, leopard snakes, Great Plains ratsnakes, and corn snakes

SteveH Jan 22, 2005 12:35 PM

I bought a 10", one month old unicolor cribo that was being force fed a pinkie a week. when i got him i started tube feeding with a syringe with small air tubing attached(from air pump in fish tank) you can also use a catherder.fed him baby food{gerber)with eggs and vitamins mixed for a several weeks till he took a small live toad. then toad scented fuzzies. now unscented f/t hoppers. he is now 6 months old and 33". Steve

Ratsnake Haven Jan 22, 2005 11:22 AM

The little bimac ate a pink again this morning, same method, all three pieces. It looks much healthier now, starting to fill out. As soon as I put it in the container it attacked the first piece, not casually, but with vigor. There was no constriction or anything, just swallowing of the pinky piece. Then it ate the other two. The whole process took about two minutes.

Some of the things I'm learning from this situation include the fact that baby bimacs will eat thawed pieces of pinky mouse. The fact that they have exposed entrails may add to the response of the snake. Bimacs may tend to be afraid of live mice, even when the mice are newborns. Also, bimacs raised on live mice often will refuse to eat thawed mice later on in life. I'm thinking I will use this method the next time I have a batch of bimac babies for their first meal, even if they don't need it. I may use it for other species too. Getting your babies started on thawed mice is a good deal.

Although I didn't get any pics today, I'm going to try to weigh this baby and get pics the next time I get ready to feed. Oh, and btw, it is starting to change color already, getting lighter.

TC
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Ratsnake Haven: Calico and hypo Chinese beauty snakes, Mandarin ratsnakes, Chinese twin-spotted ratsnakes, South Korean Dione's ratsnake, leopard snakes, Great Plains ratsnakes, and corn snakes

Terry Cox Feb 22, 2005 12:35 PM

>>The little bimac ate a pink again this morning, same method, all three pieces. It looks much healthier now, starting to fill out. As soon as I put it in the container it attacked the first piece, not casually, but with vigor. There was no constriction or anything, just swallowing of the pinky piece. Then it ate the other two. The whole process took about two minutes.
>>
>>Some of the things I'm learning from this situation include the fact that baby bimacs will eat thawed pieces of pinky mouse. The fact that they have exposed entrails may add to the response of the snake. Bimacs may tend to be afraid of live mice, even when the mice are newborns. Also, bimacs raised on live mice often will refuse to eat thawed mice later on in life. I'm thinking I will use this method the next time I have a batch of bimac babies for their first meal, even if they don't need it. I may use it for other species too. Getting your babies started on thawed mice is a good deal.
>>
>>Although I didn't get any pics today, I'm going to try to weigh this baby and get pics the next time I get ready to feed. Oh, and btw, it is starting to change color already, getting lighter.
>>

This isn't a very bright pic. The snake is lighter colored. It weighed in at 10 grams six days ago before eating. That's up about three grams from when it came out of brumation. It just ate two more thawed pinks, whole, and is taking two pinks per week at this time.

TC
Image
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Ratsnake Haven: Calico and hypo Chinese beauty snakes, Mandarin ratsnakes, Chinese twin-spotted ratsnakes, South Korean Dione's ratsnake, leopard snakes, Great Plains ratsnakes, and corn snakes

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