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Aspidelaps as starter Elapids

Jeremy G Jan 17, 2005 10:37 AM

Though Aspidelaps r indeed on the low end as far as danger is concerned with elapids there are many things to be taken into consideration when thinking of getting one for a "Starter Elapid"
or otherwise.

#1) The number 1 and most obvious thing is the lack of AV. Both species of Aspidelaps (scutatus and lubricus)have shown to be lethal and do to the apparent variety in venom compisition throughout their range (some being primarily hemo while other are prodominitly neurotoxic)(pardon the generic definitions)one may have a hotter specimen then another (this variation is true, aleast from what I have gathered from extensive research on the genus. At a hobby lvl of cource. (I welcome any argument to this claim though for many no more of Toxicology them

#2) The second consideration that comes to mind is handleing. I dont care what venom 101 says, these guys (Aspidelaps lubricus) do not hook well!! even with 2 hooks! They run like a nose! Hooking and tailing is not an option for they can and will come back up their bodies. basicly they act like a baby Naja for their hole lives!! Midwest gloves are ideal for Aspidelaps and should be a requirment. Though adult females may attian some what safe lengths for hook and tailing, males usualy stay very small and runny. Aspidelaps scutatus arent quite as runny and my experince but wont sit well either. If you do use a hook to transfer make sure to keep the holding bin very close and do so over a bed or somthing soft, just incase they take a dive.

#3)Useing Aspidelaps as a cobra trainer is not a smart idea. A.scutatus act nothing like cobras or any other elapid I have worked with, witch rules them out and even though you get a hood from lubricus, they are not at all the same. Only compareble to a neonate/juvi, maybe. In my experince, baby Naja are more brone to running were as Aspidelaps will usaly turn to confront you. Also, the speed between Aspidelaps and Naja is nowhere close to the same! Its like compareing a civic hybrid to a Mustang. Theres no comparison.

Basicly, Aspidelaps are good starters for Aspidelaps and thats it! They are a more safe then most other elapids but do not give you the skills to handle the big boys.

Just my 2 cents.

Adios,
Jeremy

P.S I currently have 1.1 A.lubricus, 1.1 A.scutatus and 1.1 A.l.infuscatus incase anyone is wondering my credentials to comment on this.

Replies (9)

taphillip Jan 17, 2005 10:45 AM

Jeremy,
Very true, your statement. Aspidelaps are good training for Aspidelaps. A person needs experience with the species of snake they are looking at aquireing. There is no substitution.
Regards,
-----
It's what you learn AFTER you know it all that counts!

Terry Phillip
Curator of Reptiles
Black Hills Reptile Gardens
Rapid City, SD.

www.reptilegardens.com

Jeremy G Jan 17, 2005 01:03 PM

Hi Terry,

How gos it man? Sorry for all of the bloody typos. I hate rush typeing from work

Anyway, yeah, they r less effective a trainer elapid then even a racer or coahwhip IMHO. Every species has its own unique quirks, habbits and so on that make them distinctive from anything else. It is much better to research which species you want till the cows come home, find somone who can give you hands on experince with said sp and then go from there. Trying to generalize them into to catogoreies isnt going to work and may get u killed! For instance, yeah, forest cobras and Monacleds are both in the same genus (atleast for the moment)but knowing how to wrangle cranky N.kaouthia isnt going to mean beans when your newly aquired N.melanoluca goes ape s@#t!

Well man, hope all is well at the park! How r the Inlands doing btw?

Regards,
Jeremy

taphillip Jan 18, 2005 10:14 PM

Jeremy,
Actually all is very well at the park. Things are moving right along. I've added some really great new animals in the last couple of months.(Psedohaje, numerous krait species etc. I am waiting on our big D. polyepsis to drop, she's due in about 7 days. Psedechis textilis eggs due soon...it's been an all around good year for us. Trying to aquire Laticauda before we open in April... all 12 of the O. microlepidotus have finally moved into the winter color phase. Thngs have been good. Hope you're well.

( I reread what I wrote below, and it does sound negative when I mentioned your name. However, it was intended as just the opposite.) Sometimes I write as well as I compute....
Ahh well, I'm sure you took no offence.
Later,

-----
It's what you learn AFTER you know it all that counts!

Terry Phillip
Curator of Reptiles
Black Hills Reptile Gardens
Rapid City, SD.

www.reptilegardens.com

Chance Jan 19, 2005 07:43 PM

Hey Terry,

Sounds like things really are going well! How many Pseudohaje were you able to acquire? I've never seen one in person, just the pictures of the large adult specimen Mardi Snipes was wrangling for ERJ to get pictures of. Impressive animals, to say the least. Does SAIMR polyvalent cover them, of are they are monovalent snake? Also, good luck with the polylepis and of course the textilis eggs. Hopefully you'll have better luck with those babies than Mr. Bachman over on the east coast, or the gentlemen from Europe who's been posting about his recent babies. I'm assuming these textilis are the mainland version? Anyway, get and post pictures of the darkened microlepidotus. I'm sure we'd all like to see them.
-Chance
-----
Chance Duncan
2.2 Retics (1.0 Tiger Het, 1.0 Lavender, 0.1 Dark Lavender, 0.1 Normal Het)
1.1 Olive Pythons
1.1 Ball Pythons (Het Albino)
http://www.rivervalleysnakes.com

taphillip Jan 19, 2005 07:53 PM

not Psuedechis...
-----
It's what you learn AFTER you know it all that counts!

Terry Phillip
Curator of Reptiles
Black Hills Reptile Gardens
Rapid City, SD.

www.reptilegardens.com

radwigs Jan 21, 2005 10:19 PM

Can't wait to get out to reptile gardens this summer. I used to work for the Black Hills Playhouse and spent a lot of time at Reptile Gardens. How is Maniac doing? I haven't seen him live yet but am very stoked for the opportunity. I have learned a lot more about snakes since the last time I was there so I will have to spend some more time checking out all of the wonderful ones you have there. Thanx for maintaining such a great facility in my home state.

taphillip Jan 21, 2005 10:55 PM

How's Maniac? Well, when 15.5 feet and 1100 pounds of crocodile charge out of the pool to "ask" you to leave his enclosure it's a pretty good indication that he has adjusted well. Actually, he settled in in a matter of days, never missed a feed. He's doing very well!
Let me know when you come to visit and I will be happy to give you a tour.
send me an email at terry@reptilegardens.com
-----
It's what you learn AFTER you know it all that counts!

Terry Phillip
Curator of Reptiles
Black Hills Reptile Gardens
Rapid City, SD.

www.reptilegardens.com

radwigs Jan 23, 2005 04:29 PM

I will let you know when I will be there. I look forward to meeting you and seeing the new additions to the collection there. A guided tour would be great if you have the time. Thanx for the offer.

Robert

Jeremy G Jan 17, 2005 01:05 PM

I really need to start useing spell check

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