Reptile & Amphibian Forums

i got 2 leucistic leos last week and the male has skin on his top and bottom lip and nose that looks like old shed. it looks like more than one layer of shed too, kindof thick and not ready to just peel off. (pic below)
they didnt have a moist hide in thier previous owners enclosure and i am thinking that this was the problem. they now have a moist hide but i havent noticed a change, any suggestions?
also, the male kindof shakes when he walks, i thought this was a calcium crash, but the previous owner had calci sand and dusted the crickets everytime. maybe this was too much calcium?
he hunts well and has a good appetite, he has two modes, slow and shaky, and voracious hunter.
they only had a heat rock in thier old tank, now they have a heatbulb not a burn rock,with hard packed spagnum for substrate and hot side of 89 degrees and a cool side at 82-84.
thnks for your time

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1.1 Gargoyle geckos
1.1 leucistic leopard gecko
0.0.1 asian golden tree frog
1.0 oriental firebelly toad
0.1 european firebelly toad
1.0 albino betta
1.0 orange tabby
0.0.1 asian painted frog
1.0 broad headed skink
0.0.1 fowlers toad
1.1 red eyed tree frog
1.1 red eared sliders
476.769.47 feeder crickets

I've heard of people giving their leos with a shed problem a warm bath to help loosen the dead skin. But for his mouth I don't know. Maybe you can try a wet Q-tip and rub his mouth, not al at once. do it in a couple sessions so you dont stress him out too much. Hopefully the skin will soften up.
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LEOS:
1.0 Tremper Giant Albino (Diesel)
0.1 High Yellow (Ayla)
0.1 Hypo (Red Sonja)
0.0.3 Juvies (Dremel, Ryobi & Mufasa)
R.I.P. (Conan)

CATS:
2.0 Maine Coons (Sam & Tye)

FIANCÉE:
0.1 Tall Blonde (Christine)

You've got more than a shed problem on your hands; but you are going in the right direction about the calcium...sorta. The swollen lips (that's some of what you are seeing), and the shakiness are both signs of a calcium deficiency. Do you know what he was dusting with? Do you know if he ever fed anything other than crickets? Was there any UV or natural light available to the geckos? As far as I am concerned, the Calci-sand doesn't provide a usable source of calcium, so I wouldn't consider that when estimating his calcium intake. As far as consuming too much calcium, there isn't a worry there, the body will naturally expel any excess calcium. Right now, I would get his hot spot temp to about 90F, and I would also get a low UV light (I like the ESU SuperUV ones, only 3% UVB output), and get that set-up on a timer; and finally, get both of them on a high-quality supplement (I like the Healthy Herp Leopard Gecko Complete supplement). If all goes well, you can still pull him out of this. Good Luck!

thank you for the help, can i get some more info on this healthy herp gecko supplement? i googled it but couldnt find anything.
also, i am new to loes and i had heard and read that uvb isnt necessary. would i use it for this gecko to aid and speed up his calcium absorbtion in light of his problem? or should i always be using uvb?
as for dust , i use flukers repta calcium with no less than 36% by vol. should i coat the heck out of the crickets more than usuall.

on a side note, i was told this pair had a clutch together over a year ago, and then none since, it makes sense to me now why. i had originally thought they didnt breed because thier enclosure was the wrong temp (which may be part of it) but now i know the lack of calcium was the problem.
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1.1 Gargoyle geckos
1.1 leucistic leopard gecko
0.0.1 asian golden tree frog
1.0 oriental firebelly toad
0.1 european firebelly toad
1.0 albino betta
1.0 orange tabby
0.0.1 asian painted frog
1.0 broad headed skink
0.0.1 fowlers toad
1.1 red eyed tree frog
1.1 red eared sliders
476.769.47 feeder crickets

Healthy Herp is a relatively new company (they came out in 2000), they do have a website, but it is under some severe stages of construction; you can find it at www.healthyherp.com; to get further, more detailed info you can contact them directly at healthyherp@consultant.com . I don't have a container of supplement here with me at the moment, or I would give you an exact list of ingredients, but I can tell you that compared to the supplement you are using right now, the Healthy Herp one has about 25-30% more digestable (usable) calcium content. So far, I've had nothing but great luck with them, and as an added bonus, every once in a while, they have been known to give free samples. As far as the supplement that you are using, I would be dusting your feeders at every meal and dust them moderately to heavily. Regarding the UV light, as a general rule it is understood that leos don't need UV since they are nocturnal, but my experiences have shown that they do much better with a low-level UV source; it provides them with a defined photoperiod (which will be especially helpful if you are planning on breeding), as well as, aides them in utilizing Vitamin D, and thus, calcium. I've had my geckos on and off the UV light, and by far, I get better results on color, feeding, size, and activity levels when they have the UV, so they now have it on year-round. Now, there are some exceptions to general UV usage, especially pertaining to leucistics and albinos, providing you have a true leucistic. As a general rule, these two morphs can be prone to UV burn due to the lack of pigment in their skin. To prevent this, if you get a UV fixture, leave the plastic cover on over the lamp, this will still give them some UV benefits but will elimate the risk of burns. Also, make sure they have caves to hide in, as they don't always need the direct (basking) benefits of the UV. Regarding the note about if you have a true leucistic, looking at the picture, I am questioning that; the true leucistics that I have seen have no iris color (ie. all black eyes, looks like yours has silver/bronze irises), as well as no dark pigment (yours appears to have some dark undertones). I can't be positive, but I am wondering if perhaps you just have a patternless male? If this is the case, disregard all that was said about the UV sensitivity and remove the plastic cover. Also, the low temps could contribute to the lack of breeding, as well as, the lack of calcium absorbtion. A leo's core temp needs to be at least 88F for proper digestion, and if it is too low, then they are not completely digesting their food, thus they are not able to adequately utilize the vitamins and minerals that are in the food and supplement. Good Luck!

ok i see what you are saying about the 88F core temp and digesting. i believe that thier crickets were dusted as often as the previous owner says but if they were too cold to digest it properly it was all for naught right?

they both have irises so i think you are right about not being true leuc. does patternless literally mean no pattern? because i see faint pattern traces on both of them. so if they arent leuc. and not patternless what else would they be?

thank you for all of your help
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1.1 Gargoyle geckos
1.1 leucistic leopard gecko
0.0.1 asian golden tree frog
1.0 oriental firebelly toad
0.1 european firebelly toad
1.0 albino betta
1.0 orange tabby
0.0.1 asian painted frog
1.0 broad headed skink
0.0.1 fowlers toad
1.1 red eyed tree frog
1.1 red eared sliders
476.769.47 feeder crickets

> because i see faint pattern traces on both of them. so if they arent leuc. and not patternless what else would they be?

The one in your picture is a Patternless. I assume your other one is also. Patternless is often, but erroneously, referred to as Leucistic. And the "patternless" refers to the fact that they have no black spots. Yes you can sometimes see a marbling of the yellow on their heads and sometimes their backs, but that's not the "pattern" that Patternless refers to. lol, does that just confuse things more? Whoever the first person to call their patternless a Leucistic should be...... covered with cricket poop and left in a humid hide forever.

P.s. I THINK Blizzards are actually true leucistics, but I could be wrong.