Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Does anyone have any pics of these. I just bought my first mex mex this past sunday and am realy happy with her so far esp since she just put down 2 pinkys for me ( that first meal is always so stressful LOL) The people I bought her from said its a het so I was kind of curious and may try breeding her in a couple of years when shes ready.

Tom

Tom,
I have never heard of Anerytheristic Mex mex. There are some Anery Alterna that Dan Johnson has been working with for a few years . Do you have a pic of your snake? I know it is only Het, but I would love to see it. Also, where did you purchase this girl from? I would like to get some if they are in fact anery.
Thanks in advance,
-John Lassiter-

Email me a pic if possible at: (or just post it if you can)
jlassiterjr54@grandecom.net

>>I would like to see pics too. If she is a het (definitly) then the people you bought her from would have to have an anery so they should have pics, unless they don't have a digital camera. Who did you get her from?
I don't know of any anery mex mex but I have seen some aneries that where from breeding an L. alterna to a mex mex. Interestingly neither animal was known to be a het and the time line on this was long enough ago to make it unlikely that the anery gene came from Dan Johnson's anery Black Gap alterna. Shannon Brown used to have a pair of adults of these anery crosses and I saw them as adults the year before or the same year as Dan Johnson first offered his aney Gaps. I have also heard of some anery Juno Rd. alterna and I think there was also a generic anery alterna. Both predated the anery Gaps as well.
Any of these have been around long enough to have crept into the mexicana.
Maybe yours is pure but I have my doubts about even most of the normal mexicana complex snakes around today even the ones I own.

Aaron,
I suspected a cross at first, but just wanted to see pics to make sure. I also forgot about the Juno Rd. aneries and I did not know Shannon had adult mexmex X alterna crosses. I would like to see them if they are still around.
As for the purity of our mexicana complex I can state that our Greeri and Mex mex still are "pure" by appearance. I have done some research about Louie Porras' finds and have seen many pictures of his founding stock(s). Our Greeri and Mexmex resemble these founding animals greatly. As for Thayeri, we have line bred this ssp. to the point were all like "good" genes have produced brighter, cleaner offspring. There are some colorful Thayeri in the wild but most are often drab in appearance. We breed by selecting two of the nicest and producing even nicer offspring (line breeding). We are propagating things that would never happen in the wild. Generations of doing this has produced the awesome colors in Mexicana we see today. On the other hand, you will have to trust your breeder is telling you the truth, but this is with any snake not just Mexicana ssp. The only reason I did this research is because I had some doubts myself after someone posted on the Kingsnake Forum that "we do not know what any of our Mexicana Kingsnakes really look like or if they are from where they are said to be from." I guess this guy just did not know because there are many out there that do know what we have is the real thing,
-John Lassiter-

Shannon doesn't have them anymore. He sold them at the SD show several years ago. He also had some possible het anery Juno alterna for sale at the same show. What is funny is that a mutual friend of ours Ric Blair called me after the show and said his friend had just bought some pure het for anery Junos but they look like anery mex mex. Now Shannon is a trusted friend of mine plus the fact that the previous year he had displayed the anery crosses and Junos as not for sale and properly labeled them as such but somehow this inexperienced buyer had bought the crosses thinking they were anery Junos. This just shows how things can get mixed up.
I have also done alot of research on mexicana and I would say mine look to be pure too. But since I did not personally collect them and in most cases so many are generations removed from the founders who can say for sure? Those of us who care do our best but all I am saying is in most cases there will always be that 1% of doubt.
I would love to see any pictures you have of wild caught mexicana. Could you post them or email them to me if possible?
I currently have:
2.2 greeri
4.3 mex mex
7.4 thayeri
Most of them are in hibernation now but I will get around to posting pics and lineages eventually or I could email them to you if you want.
aaron herp "at" earthlink "dot" net (no spaces)

I would enjoy seeing your Mexicana Aaron.
I wish there was some way to bring new blood from Mexico back into our lines or just start a definite "pure" project.
Thanks Aaron,
John Lassiter

Well I got an e-mail back from the show organizer today I told him exactly where the booth was and hes going to get back to me with who it could be. I am just so mad at myself for letting the card get thrown out. I always get one after I bought a corn and the guy made sure I had his card and the snake died on me 2 days later. He was very good about it and I got another one from him at the next show. FWIW I paid 50 dollars for him which seems to be the going rate from what i had seen so at least I didnt get screwed or anything. I wasnt planning on breeding but after swapping a few e-mails with John L Iam def thinking about it.

Tom

$50 for any Mex mex is a great deal. You did not get taken for to say the least. I just would like to see the parent snakes to see if they are in fact anery Mex mex. By the pictures you sent I see no Alterna influence whatsoever. She has the classic skull head and nuchal stripe.
If the mex mex is in fact het for Anery it is worth way more than what you paid. I have been doing this 14 years and have never heard of pure Anery mex mex. There are crosses out there which is fine as long as the breeder is treating these animals as crosses and is not trying to pass them off as being pure.
John Lassiter

I figure am happy with whatever she is LOL Now if I do decide to breed is it better if its pure or if she is truly an anery. Ther are some interesting discussions here as to pure bred animals, but I also like seeing new and different things too.

Tom

Tom,
If she is in fact a cross between Alterna and Mex mex then you could breed it to whatever you would like just as long as the offspring are labelled and sold for such cross. This will cease confusion. For that matter IMHO you can breed it to whatever you want no matter what she is actually as long as guidelines are followed to ensure honesty in the hobby.
To me she looks like a "classic" mex mex. I see no Alterna influence in her. If she is het for anery and crossed with an alterna then it was done generations ago. The only way to know for certain is if you contact the breeder/dealer of this mexmex.
Let us know what you find out.
Thanks Tom,
John Lassiter

Please post of pic, I am dying to take a look at this mex mex. $50 was a good deal. Like John said get the information on the breeder and parents of this anery mex mex, that way in the future if you ever did any breeding they could be labeled correctly as babies and the buyers would know exactly what their getting.
Happy Herping,
Uncloudy

Well, maybe there isn't a way to bring new wild blood back from Mexico to start totally "pure" lines, but Tim Gebhard at Vivid breeds his wild caught female thayeri and sells the offspring. I have 3 of them I plan to outbreed with.

Greg

Here's an '03 female of mine that is the offspring of his wc female

Nice Thayeri,
And Yes Tim has some incredible animals. I am fortunate to have Vivid line thayeri and plan to purchase some "wild" blood as well for some of my projects.
Thank for the picture kingaz,
-John Lassiter-

Talking to Shannon I found out Jim Kane produced the original anery crosses from the aforementioned normal (unknown hets) mex mex and alterna. Jim sold the adults before the clutch hatched. There were I believe something like 3 anerys and 2 normals. The entire clutch was bought by Tim Rainwater. Shannon got his from Tim. These were called "Ghost" mex mex but both Jim and Tim were very upfront about them being crosses the whole time and also with the fact that they were not really true "ghosts" (which would of course be double homo anery & hypo) but just anery.
As I said Jim sold the adults before the eggs hatched but he did not keep track of who he sold them to so there is or was at least a pure het for anery mex mex in somebody's hands at one time, whether it ever reproduced or is still alive is anybody's guess.
One last thing to mention is the adults I saw that Shannon had looked like mex mex and showed little alterna influence.

Now that is interesting. I guess no one will ever know where this het anery Mex mex is. Thanks alot for the information Aaron.
-John Lassiter-

I just got some info from the showe people, the breeder should be anything reptiles, I also got a # but it seems he doesnt have a website so i will call him tomorrow orover the weekend and see what I can find out.

Tom

Cool Tom,
Keep us posted.
John Lassiter

Not sure if Joe Forks in San Antone will read this but he does have some pix of greeri that are in the wild. Maybe he'll share them with us.
Best...
Jim