Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Well I can't resist even though I know everyone will jump all over it. I have had this male forever and I have heard that Brown backs can be genetic.

Here is a pic of him, his coloration is a bit odd in that upon close inspection you would realize that he has no black on him except for the small spots within the lighter blotches. His head back and sides are all verying degrees of brown to really dark brown. As you can see in the pic he has a few spots of pattern that interrupt the brown stripe.

I know a lot of people will think this is a normal, great...
Does anyone think it is a genetic brown back? Is being a brown back a recessive, dominant, or more complicated polygenic trait? Would it be worth breeding him to a normal female? Or would it be a waste of time and I should save the female for a better male? Do brown backs have any worth in the morph market...I see them for sale from time to time for prices varying from $150 to $1000.

Alright, let it rip....

oh yeah, his belly looks yellow........just kidding, it looks pretty normal, but a little less pattern than my others have

sorry about the flash glare

Depends on what you want to produce. If you don't have any other males to use then I would breed the Black/brown back. I have 2 breedable size males that I put on the back burner because I was doing pastel males to my normal females. I am pretty sure that black backs are genetic, because My female black back was bred to a normal and she had 3 out of 5 babies that were black backed last year, I got a black backed male that was better than her but decided since she was proven to put her with my pastel. So I won't know what would have happened. Maybe next year I will use her for the black back thing. I know Cory Woods Black?brown backs are the ones that produce RED Axanthics, But I am not up on any of the Axanthic stuff. If you have NO other males go for it...you never know. I wanted pastel babies more than more brown/black backs. Plus since she produced 3 out of 5 last season I got a good shot at Pastel blackbacks. However I am raising up a few of her babies to breed back to her in the future. Hope this helps.

Here the female is at a whopping 3900 grams and bred to bell line pastel

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1.0 Pied(04)(RDR)
1.0 Albino(04)(RDR)
0.1 Spider(04)(RDR)
3.2 Pastels(03's)(04's)(ASF,Graziani,Bell lines)
0.1 Yellow belly(unproven)(04)
1.3 Yellow belly(unproven)(02,03,04's)
2.0 100% HET CLOWN(04's)(MHMR)
3.3 100% het albinos(03's)(high contrast bell line)
0.1 poss Het Albino(03's)
2.0 100% het pieds(03's)(Vin Russo,CRE)
0.2 100% het pieds(03's)(04's)(RDR,TWL)
1.2 Poss het pieds(03's)(PETE KAHL)
2.1 Poss het pieds(00's)(01's) hoping to get PIEDS this year(Vin Russo, Pete Kahl)
25 Normal adult females
60 04 females
15 normal mixed 03's
20 Assorted weird ball pythons 04's

Did you sell you black backs? How much did you get for them?
Do you think this is a dominant trait, or do you think you normal female was Het for brown back?

From what I've heard brown backs and black backs are not genetically compatible

Thanks

I don't really think we have much intrest in black/brown backs. I paid 100.00 for a male as a baby and still have not sold it. I have been asking from 200 -250.00 on Breedable MALE blackback ball pythons but still have them. I sold a few of my babies for like 30-60.00. Don't really remember what I got for them. I am not sure what to put on mine as far as Dom,Co-dom, because I have not bred them enough. Now if I take here baby and pop it back to her and get something then we can talk, but as for now the black/brown back have went to the back burner for me. I will see when the female BlackBack bred to my bell pastel produces anything. Then that will make 2 years in a row I bred her. The first year she was bred to 2 NOrmal males but they were 50% het PIED and they(both males) do have the belly stripes, The males are being bred to my Poss het PIED Female. So I will see what happens with that. Anyhow good luck with you Black back.

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1.0 Pied(04)(RDR)
1.0 Albino(04)(RDR)
0.1 Spider(04)(RDR)
3.2 Pastels(03's)(04's)(ASF,Graziani,Bell lines)
0.1 Yellow belly(unproven)(04)
1.3 Yellow belly(unproven)(02,03,04's)
2.0 100% HET CLOWN(04's)(MHMR)
3.3 100% het albinos(03's)(high contrast bell line)
0.1 poss Het Albino(03's)
2.0 100% het pieds(03's)(Vin Russo,CRE)
0.2 100% het pieds(03's)(04's)(RDR,TWL)
1.2 Poss het pieds(03's)(PETE KAHL)
2.1 Poss het pieds(00's)(01's) hoping to get PIEDS this year(Vin Russo, Pete Kahl)
25 Normal adult females
60 04 females
15 normal mixed 03's
20 Assorted weird ball pythons 04's

Corey Woods has a proven line of dominant black backs...
The only way to really know if it is genetically reproducable is to breed it and find out...
Until then...no one could say for sure if it is...
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Luke Martin
Bronze Serpent Reptiles

male?.....$50 to $100........

......not really a brown back or black back I think.......

......yep
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of Brown Backs........his line is co dom/dom (he hasn't bred Brown Back x Brown Back yet, so it is undetermined if there is a super form). Value...I don't believe he has sold any, but I would believe that their value would far exceed the price range you mentioned. His line is far more extreme in appearance than yours, however, breed your male and see what happens.

Well, I put him with my female, but so far they are not real interested in each other. I'll post an update if I see them lock up.

I think they are awesome too.

You're right - I haven't bred brown back to brown back yet......my females aren't big enough yet. Maybe next year??
I'll thrown this out there.....I guess it is related to this topic....I bred a black back male to a normal female last season. He looked similar to my founding brown back male - only he is darker and his pattern isn't quite as clean. The purpose of the breeding was to determine if the black back was dominant or co-dominant like the brown back. The offspring did not resemble the black back sire so I am assuming there is nothing dominant or co-dominant going on with this male. At least I found one thing out – just because it looks like a genetic brown back, it doesn’t mean it is.
Here is a picture of the two males:

Joe Compel Reptiles - Brown Back Ball Pythons