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What exactly does three finger toxin mean..i have been doing some reading on venom but i still dont understand what that means

Thanks Jason

Somebody told me they were watching Austin Stevens "Snake Masterba....wait..."Snake Master" and he said that it meant that you have three seconds left to live if you get bit by one of those.

well if he said it...it must be true..LOL

It has to do with the molecular structure of the molecule.

It does NOT have anything to do with the time you'll have to live after being bitten.

3FT's are highly toxic however, and are found in most elapid venoms. Boiga venoms are also rich in 3FT's, however the amount of venom produced and "injected" (not a correct term for most rearfangs) into a wound is pretty small, so serious envenomations are not common.

Do the 3FT's affect more parts of the body then weaker venoms

Thanks Jason

Dont take this the wrong way...but you said its the wrong term for most rear fanged snakes. I am unaware of anything you would consider rear fanged which would "inject".

Um, no offense taken..but I am unsure what you mean.

I said that "injecting" was an incorrect term for rear-fanged snakes since the venom drips down grooves in their fangs into the wound...

I just used it for lack of a better word at the time.

Boiga venom is very rich in 3FT's, and is in itself very toxic. The amount injected...er, introduced into a wound from a bite is what makes the bites not so serious.

Where exactly were you in disagreement with what i said?

is because of boomslangs...they are rear-fanged, however the fangs are highly evovled and can inject venom, they do not need to have a prolonged chew on you.

That is a good example of a rear-fang that can inject.

I was not in any disagreement on anything. You just stated "most rear fangs"...I am not aware of a single snake you would consider rear fanged which is capable of injection. The snakes which are "rear fanged" are colubrids which have a varying degree of groved and/or curved teeth which allow a very efficient means of facilitation depending on their need. A boomslang certainly does a extremely long "fangs" and a very eveolved form on facilitation. But by no means does it "inject." They are not hollow fangs and are still the curved and groved teeth of any heteron, boiga, or even thamnophis (which I am unaware of any enlarged rear teeth). I was not trying to debate..I was just saying most rear fanged snakes is actaully all rear fanged snakes as far as I know. But I do not know everything (or even close) so if there is an acception...I would like to know it. This I see as more of an oportunity for me to learn something than for me to call you on something.

Three finger toxins (3FTx) are called such due to their characteristic molecular structure, having three loops that look like three fingers

The basal activity of this toxin type is to block the postsynaptic nicotinic acetylcholine receptor. This results in muscle paralysis, with death resulting from respiratory failure. These toxins were recruited just after the split by the vipers so are ubiquitous in the various 'colubrid' venoms and elapid venoms. In elapid venoms, this toxin type has been mutated into a number of new forms. We are also finding new variants in the venoms from the various colubrid venoms. For example, we've well characterised alpha-neurotoxins from colubrid venoms but we've just foiund a new type that acts on a presynaptic region never documented as being affected by any three finger toxin before, even the well studied elapid venoms. Just goes to show what a bonana of novel toxins the 'colubrid' venoms will contain.

If you think three finger toxins are bad, you outta see a two finger toxin!

Cheers
Bryan

-----
Dr. Bryan Grieg Fry
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Australian Venom Research Unit,
University of Melbourne
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Population and Evolutionary Genetics Unit,
Museum Victoria
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
http://www.venomdoc.com

Its interesting that the rear fang was brought up because that is what i am doing reaserch for.
I recently got a mangrove and had some understanding about the venom before i got it but i wanted to have a better understanding of it. It seems that alot of people think mang venom is mild when infact it is not.
Are there any good books out that discuss various types of venom in detail?
I am hoping to put together a presentation at my local Herp club about mangs and venom since i am the only one in the club that has one or really even knows much about them.
I will keep searching the web also.
Thanks for eveyone who replied you have been a big help..

Jason

>>Its interesting that the rear fang was brought up because that is what i am doing reaserch for.

Always a good idea to do the homework first. Good on ya.

>>I recently got a mangrove and had some understanding about the venom before i got it but i wanted to have a better understanding of it. It seems that alot of people think mang venom is mild when infact it is not.

Drop for drop it is as toxic as a death adder and is similarly rich in 3FTx. However, that is only part of equation. Venom yield and relative efficacy delivery also has to be considered. Magroves, and other Boigas, put out moderate amounts of venom, up to 20 milligrams. However, the venom is not stored but rather secreted from the cells as needed. This takes time. They also lack the advanced delivery mechanisms of an elapid, not having the pair of hypoderrmic syringes. So, the delivery is vastly less efficient. This drops the relative danger way down. Gardening gloves and a long sleeve shirt will more than suffice.

>>Are there any good books out that discuss various types of venom in detail?
>>I am hoping to put together a presentation at my local Herp club about mangs and venom since i am the only one in the club that has one or really even knows much about them.

Download our research articles, we have done quite a bit of work on the venoms and have several more papers currently in various stages of the pipeline.

Cheers
Bryan
Research papers

-----
Dr. Bryan Grieg Fry
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Australian Venom Research Unit,
University of Melbourne
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Population and Evolutionary Genetics Unit,
Museum Victoria
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
http://www.venomdoc.com