Reptile & Amphibian Forums

How many sub sp. is there of Epicrates cenchria ?

I get 9-10 on the net..

thebigsnake,
...cenchria, assissi, alvarezi, barbouri, gaigei, maurus, crassus, hygrophilus, polylepis, xerophilus, that makes 10 but there is disagreement about a couple of them. There is also the possibly subspecific deserving snake we call the Guyana Rainbow Boa and another possible subspecies on Trinidad. All this is just off the top of my head but IMO books are better than the internet when you are looking for this kind of information. Those ten listed at first are the ones that have been recognized for a long time and they are the ones that you will find listed in many books about boids. Some recent books discuss the possibility that one or more of the original ten are not different enough to warrant subspecific status and that maurus may actually be a seperate species.
Jeff

>>How many sub sp. is there of Epicrates cenchria ?
>>
>>I get 9-10 on the net..

Jeff, could you give more information about why do you think maurus should be a different specie than cenchria?, i have never read or heard something like that, I think they have not been that isolated from cenchria, in some areas they live almost in the same territory with no natural division between those 2 subspecies, and there are prove that they can breed and produce fertile babies

Ricardo,
...Two animals that live in the same area and maintain distinctly different morphology seems like a very good arguement that they ARE different species. If they were the same species don't you think that intergradation would occur to such an extent that the animals along the edge would be nearly all crossed and there would be few if any pure subspecimens? On the other hand, there are examples all over the place of animals from different species breeding and producing viable fertile young. This is especially common among different species of snakes. You seem to be hanging onto the classic definition of species which in recent history seems to be wrong. If you read my other post on this subject I hope you did not get the idea that I am in favor of making maurus a seperate species. I actually do not have a stronbg opinion either way but I do think that maurus is very different from cenchria cenchria and gaigei and barbouri and that at the south end of the Epicrates cenchria range alvarezi and crassus and assissi are also very different. I am not a taxonomist and just sit back and watch the splitters and lumpers make their arguements back and forth. I think we hobbyist breeders often have too much financially to gain in these arguements and so should rightfully remain neutral. My opinion that maurus is different is just my amateur opinion based upon what I see looking at, reading about and keeping the snakes.
Jeff

>>Jeff, could you give more information about why do you think maurus should be a different specie than cenchria?, i have never read or heard something like that, I think they have not been that isolated from cenchria, in some areas they live almost in the same territory with no natural division between those 2 subspecies, and there are prove that they can breed and produce fertile babies

In those area where they coexist you can find maurus with a lot of more similarites with cenchria that the regular maurus that are imported to USA, the pattern are just like cenchria but their color are brown, I'm not saying that they are integrates animals because I have not prove of that, but I think the posibilities are great, i'm also amateur i just consider myself a reptile lover that like to keep them but I'm also a big reptile reader I like to buy any kind of reptils books, magazine, and internet publication, thats why this new idea about maurus been a separete species took my attention, it is the first time I heard about that, i will have a better answer in the next few days

Ricardo,
...If you get a chance have a look at Jerry Wall's book "The Living Boas".
Jeff

>>In those area where they coexist you can find maurus with a lot of more similarites with cenchria that the regular maurus that are imported to USA, the pattern are just like cenchria but their color are brown, I'm not saying that they are integrates animals because I have not prove of that, but I think the posibilities are great, i'm also amateur i just consider myself a reptile lover that like to keep them but I'm also a big reptile reader I like to buy any kind of reptils books, magazine, and internet publication, thats why this new idea about maurus been a separete species took my attention, it is the first time I heard about that, i will have a better answer in the next few days

I noticed when Jeff mentioned that befor and wondered about it. They are very simular it would be interesting to hear from someone who has bred the two or has tried and failed. I know there has been some cross breeding of very different sub- species done in the python world I wonder how hard a time they had getting the deed done. Randy

>>Ricardo,
>>...If you get a chance have a look at Jerry Wall's book "The Living Boas".
>>Jeff
>>
>>>>In those area where they coexist you can find maurus with a lot of more similarites with cenchria that the regular maurus that are imported to USA, the pattern are just like cenchria but their color are brown, I'm not saying that they are integrates animals because I have not prove of that, but I think the posibilities are great, i'm also amateur i just consider myself a reptile lover that like to keep them but I'm also a big reptile reader I like to buy any kind of reptils books, magazine, and internet publication, thats why this new idea about maurus been a separete species took my attention, it is the first time I heard about that, i will have a better answer in the next few days

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